Visiting Scotland

[middlepillar]

The Truth always wins over? (I think)

[eric384]

Thanks, I thought with Veritas being in there it would be something along those lines.

[Saracen1970]

Its funny how accurate these motto's can be.

Mine is Plus Ultra and I think it encompasses my beliefs so well.

[Eckywan]

Thyanks Eric Me too!! I fell asleep for 2 years of latin when 12/ 13 and was surprised 1) to be asked to provide a motto in Latin
2) that I remembered enough and amalgamated stuff from elsewhere ( im a retired cop so Semper Vigilo was easy)
Veritsas as Truth was easy and " in hoc signal vincit" provided the end!
What I was / am concerned about was the spelling and grammar

I hope it makes sense or even translates as I meant TRUTH By Vigilance will always win
Veritas Per Vigilo Senper Vincit
hence my annoyance about all the continuing lies about 1717

Yours aye Eckywan

[Eckywan]

Thanks Eric but if I remember right my results were worse!
Anyway it was easy BUT if anyone can correct my spelling or grammar I'd be obliged
Veritas per vigilo semper vincit

just made up from other mottos's

veritas is sooooo important to most of us
Im a retired Leith cop so Semper Vigilo sticks in the mind
In hoc signal vincit from you know where

Slainthe
eckywan

[gord_vokes]

Thyanks Eric Me too!! I fell asleep for 2 years of latin when 12/ 13 and was surprised 1) to be asked to provide a motto in Latin
2) that I remembered enough and amalgamated stuff from elsewhere ( im a retired cop so Semper Vigilo was easy)
Veritsas as Truth was easy and " in hoc signal vincit" provided the end!
What I was / am concerned about was the spelling and grammar

I hope it makes sense or even translates as I meant TRUTH By Vigilance will always win
Veritas Per Vigilo Senper Vincit
hence my annoyance about all the continuing lies about 1717

Yours aye Eckywan

My Brother,
We all share in the frustration of Masonic history and to get to the fact of the matter. Indeed Quatuor Coronati Lodge is based in part to produce authentic papers on that subject.

I suggest for your reading to look at Masonic History and Historians vol. 99 page 1 Ars Quatuor Coronatorum. Bro. J.M. Hamill's inaugural address as Master of Quatuor Coronati Lodge.

In it he explains the method historians percieved the world in the age they lived. We are constantly under the illusion of present time and that we are at the pinnacle of human understanding. In Anderson's time, his two Constitutions 1723 & 38 were legends as that was the way mankind understood history. Preston's were even more far-fetched to our present way of understanding history. Oliver came from a world that was based on a literal belief that the bible was accurate, a pre-Darwinian fundamentalist. "...His major weakness was a gullibility with regard to the printed word..."

How many of us still produce papers in an un-scientific way? We do it backwards by coming up with a hypothesis and then search for proof or evidence in the written word, source material all properly cited rather then starting with the facts and trying to figure out what where that leads.

Speculative Freemasonry is a great example. It was a development over generations, likely to continue to change slowly or rapidly in our lifetimes. We all defend the rituals tooth and nail ( ) but some things, like the dating of our beginnings are vague.

[Eckywan]

Thanks Gerd but QQ seems to rehash official propaganda too much
On the other hand perhaps UGLE needs to read ita own history and stop lying about 1717
and ackpowledge their founding in 1803 as everyone else does, including their staff

Fraternally
veritas !

[gord_vokes]

Thanks Gerd but QQ seems to rehash official propaganda too much
On the other hand perhaps UGLE needs to read ita own history and stop lying about 1717
and ackpowledge their founding in 1803 as everyone else does, including their staff

Fraternally
veritas !

My Brother,

I disagree that "... but QQ seems to rehash official propaganda too much..." I suggest you read the paper written by Bro. John Hamill that I refered to for a clearer understanding of masonic history. It's easily acessable at most GLs, certainly in England/Wales, probably at any larger Lodge library. If you take that as a starting point you may, or may not, find "...lying about 1717..." too strong a judgment.

I consider myself a student, an eternal student, one always welcome for information, especially what others consider to be more accurate. Therefore any information you can supply me with I will look at seriously and spend the time to learn all I can about the subject. Specificly concerning "...acnowledge their founding in 1803 as everyone else does, including their staff..."

What confuses me about the 1803 date is that I own a book called The Etiquette of Freemasonry (with which is incorporated "The Etiquette of Freemasonry" by "An old Past Master" revised and enlarged) London: A. Lewis , 13 Paternoster Bow, E.C. MDCCCCXIX All rights reserved.

Chapter IV of the said book is titled: Articles of Union Between the Two Grand Lodges of Freemasons of England in toto beginning on page 41 and contiues to page 60 where it is signed (in two columns):

In Grand Lodge, this first day of December, A.D. 1813. Ratified and Confirmed, and the Seal of the Grand Lodge affixed.
Edward, G.M.
Robert Leslie, G.S.

In Grand Lodge, this first day of December, A.D. 1813, Ratified and Confirmed and the Seal of the Grand Lodge affixed.
Augustus Frederick, G.M.
W. Shirley, D.G.M., V.T.
William H. White, G.S.

In the presence of Jano. Pontrission De Lagardje, G.M. of the Lodge of the North.

Gord again:
So perhaps you wrote 1803 instead of 1813, if so, no big mistake; however we are tracing or attempting to trace the beginnings of our Fraternity by estimating the founding of the first Grand lodge. A better amateur or professional historian would do justice. The earlies name I can recall is the Grand Lodge of London and Westminister. One could walk to meetings or as a visitor.

[middlepillar]

Guys

(particularly Eckywan)

This area is reserved for SRIA discussions, you have a thread elsewhere that is discussing the way this thread is going, please use that thread.

Regarding the history of The SRIA/SRIS so much new information that has not been seen for many many years is now being found I would suggest a complete reevaluation of the beginning of our Society is now coming to fruition. For the last 3 years we (SRIA) have been going through the archives at Hampstead, we have employed an archivist for that time on a part time basis, the discoveries that have been made are quite stunning including a stash of papers written by Westcott that have never been published, letters between The English and Scots never seen and much, much more.

These discoveries are still on going and I know that there has already been a great deal of information passed over to the SRIS, I promise you history will be re written. However this has nothing to do with UGLE so please take that discussion elsewhere

Thanks

I am confident that at some time in the very near future I will be able to release a lot of this info but it is not yet ready

[Eckywan]

Thanks Admin wilco
Gerd sorry ...I did mistype 1803 instaead of 1813

but your other quotes confirm it so you knew already!

rest elswhere

apart from SRIS / SRIA
I just saw Supreme Magus Fred shopping and looking a lot better !!

fraternally everyone!

Eckywan

[gord_vokes]

"[middlepillar"]Guys

(particularly Eckywan)

This area is reserved for SRIA discussions, you have a thread elsewhere that is discussing the way this thread is going, please use that thread.

Regarding the history of The SRIA/SRIS so much new information that has not been seen for many many years is now being found I would suggest a complete reevaluation of the beginning of our Society is now coming to fruition. For the last 3 years we (SRIA) have been going through the archives at Hampstead, we have employed an archivist for that time on a part time basis, the discoveries that have been made are quite stunning including a stash of papers written by Westcott that have never been published, letters between The English and Scots never seen and much, much more.

These discoveries are still on going and I know that there has already been a great deal of information passed over to the SRIS, I promise you history will be re written. However this has nothing to do with UGLE so please take that discussion elsewhere

Thanks

My apologies. Just laziness on my part. In reviewing the very top of the page I see "Esoteric Freemasonry > SRIA", but I only saw "Visiting Scotland" and continued the thread the thread that I had thought had gone on incorrectly far too long.

As you've said this thread has been spread over more than one topic heading and I appologize for my negligence.

BTW my name is Gordon, or Gord for short, not Gerd.

I am confident that at some time in the very near future I will be able to release a lot of this info but it is not yet ready

We all wait anxiously for that Middlepillar

[Eckywan]

re SRIS sorry iots on SRIA thread BUT
I had a wee blether with Fred Lowrie (Supreme Magus) at Sainsburys last week and hes coping fine
He has "retired" from most offices ( GL etc) but will remain with SRIS ( as Tam hinted at Perth meeting)

and no doubt will visit SRIA too ( quickly before borders close)

Slainthe
Eckywan

[middlepillar]

Many thanks for feeping us informed. I have known Fred a long time now as I was his chaufeur when he came down to London to Install MW Frater Andrew Stephenson as SM.

He is a magnificent man and all those down here who know him wish him all the best after his tremendous loss (I am pretty sure those who dont know him also wish him well!)