websites

Lay out any Complaints and suggestions so we can get to grips with them

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How to do rate the overall quality of masonic websites in relation to all other websites.

Very Poor
10
17%
Poor
18
31%
Average
24
41%
Good
4
7%
Very Good
3
5%
 
Total votes : 59

websites

Postby piginthepoke » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Everybody using this forum is obviously fairly internet savy but I do wonder about what the overall attitude to Masonic websites is.

From all the anecdotal evidence I can see this has been mixed at best. Some have said to me that they have seen no tangible return. Others aren't even aware of how beneficial a properly run site can be. Some may not see it a relevant at all or that there is no problem at all with what is already out there - both equally unhelpful.

There are signs of improvement with word passing down about the benefits. UGLE and the Provinces have upped their game considerably over the last year or so.

Since we launched our site In the Autumn our search engine rankings have grown to the point where we have knocked UGLE and our Province off their perch for some quite important key phrases. It is still very early days for our site. The fact we have dislodged more senior sites so early is particularly worrying. This tells me they are not being managed as effectively as they could be.

In the 4 months so far we have had 4 enquiries a joining. 1 from Birmingham Alabama. 1 from Johannesburg and 1 indirect from another site and 1 direct enquiry from our area. It is far too early to say this will be the normal pattern but it is encouraging. By 12 months we should have 1 or two candidates from our site.

In the next few weeks our lodge extranet will go live and that can only improve internal communication and retention.

I have added a poll. If you can rate the Masonic internet in general in relation to the wider internet it might prove a useful barometer. It may be more useful if I add a more generic multi question poll on the general attitudes and perception of Masonic websites.

Thanks.
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Re: websites

Postby piginthepoke » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:39 pm

I have knocked up a more comprehensive poll over at Survey Monkey http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6X3VLJG
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Re: websites

Postby piginthepoke » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:31 am

Seems to be that average is the order of the day. Not enough votes here or at SurveyMonkey to draw any conclusions.
Over on SurveyMonkey Provincial sites are considered to be better than Grand Lodge and Lodge sites.
So far... over 60% consider Lodge sites to be Poor. Grand Lodge sites are evenly split between Good and Poor. Provincial sites are ahead with over 60% rating them as average or better.
Grand Lodge sites are considered the best at communicating what Freemasonry is about to the uninitiated. Over 80% think Provincial sites are average or worse at communicating that.
Like I said not enough responses to draw anything from really.
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Re: websites

Postby Shawn Carrick » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:15 am

The survey is basic and it is difficult to say average or good. An internet presence is needed in the 21st century in my opinion. Men want to be involved in something that will have an impact on them and a feeling of belonging, but in today's society, many men will research where to best spend their time. This research is normally on the internet and lodges with no presence may be missing the mark for membership. I am not saying that we need to seek out men to become members, just that those that are seeking us out, are checking us out. I have meet many new Masons in Minnesota and found that a large number of the new members became interested in a specific lodge because they believed they would fit in with the membership of the lodge they petitioned verses other lodges that they looked up. Word of mouth is always great, but as society changes, we need to meet some of the new needs of society.
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Re: websites

Postby piginthepoke » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:24 pm

To date, since my Lodge launched their site 6 months ago, we are getting genuine enquiries about joining amounting to roughly 1.5 a month.
Of those that have made contact:
  • Two were from foreign jurisdictions. Both have been referred onto their local Lodges & Grand Lodges. We call these Far Misses. Hopefully, the fraternity as a whole still gains from those enquiries.
  • One has been within our region but is joining a Lodge more local to him, within an adjoining Provincial Grand Lodge and may yet visit us once initiated. We call these Provincial Misses.
  • Four have been genuinely within our immediate area. If these fail to pan out we will call these Near Misses. One of these has been to meet brethren for food and a drink or 2 and may yet turn into our first HIT
(7)
I couldn't agree more Shawn. When times are tough many people naturally reflect on their lives and think: "Is this all there is?" There are people out there looking. That much is certain. Lodges, Provinces or Grand Lodges that are aware of that, with a well designed site is a position to capitalise. Those that aren't are missing out.

A website is your shop window. If you want people to come knocking and even come inside, it needs to be inviting and offer what they are looking for. A bad site can never achieve that. Beyond that, even a good looking website can still fail. If I take the shop analogy a bit further...

It is like having two identical shops, both selling the same quality cakes for the same price, but 1 is on a back road and the other is on the main road. The odds of an individual looking at the shop window and deciding to come and buy are the same. However, the shop on the back road rarely gets passing traffic. The shop on the main road has more passing traffic, so it will generate more customers because more people will see the shop window. They also gain from word of mouth referrals etc.
Ergo, A shop in a good location, offering a good product => more visitors looking at a good shop windows => more purchases => more referrals => more visitors => more purchases etc.
Ergo, A Lodge website with good search engine rankings, offering what their visitors are looking for => more visitors looking at a good website => more interactions => more referrals => More visitors => more potential candidates.
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Re: websites

Postby Shawn Carrick » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:33 am

Today I and few Brothers met with a Man who was knocking on our website door seeking to ask questions about the Fraternity. He has lived in the city for many years and never knew where the lodge was ( or that we even had a lodge ). Because of the website we may have another brother petitioning, not a sure thing, which would mean that this year we may have 4 new members, 2 because of our website.

Any web presence is better than no web presence with the younger men of our societies. Just my opinion.
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Re: websites

Postby keltickev » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:34 pm

If we aim to recruit the next generation a website is a MUST. We must speak the language of the under 30s to attract them and their language is online. It is the first place they (or I) look to find any information about anything.
Sine launching our website 3 years ago it has brought in 4 candidates. It has also prompted many enquiries about visits, Scottish FM in general and other associated issues.
We try to keep it up to date and regularly post news of charity events, visits to and from other Lodges etc etc
I would strongly recommend a website to any Lodge
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Re: websites

Postby admin » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:10 pm

The problem is now as it has been over the past 20 years.

The majority of Freemasons are 50 plus, they are the Guys in the seats that decide these things. As it should be, however most of them just do not understand the power of the internet.

With my salesman hat on I have to also say this.
You can not sell someone something they do not want. All you can do is make the information known.

I have probably introduced more people to Freemasonry than most through the power of the internet. Sometimes I just point them in the right direction. Other times we chat face to face, or just write emails. we can all do this.

I think if we all consider Freemasonry to be a precious gift that we would like to give to those who would like to receive it and that comes through what we say and write. No matter if it is on the internet, on paper or in person.

You will receive far more from the giving of the gift than the taking.

For myself I always say my sites are function-able, they work, maybe they could be a bit prettier but it all takes so much time. One of the best sites I use regularly is the 'Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon', but they have several people working on that along with a team of researchers. Here it is just me and you lot. But I enjoy the work.
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Re: websites

Postby gord_vokes » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:00 pm

For myself I always say my sites are function-able, they work, maybe they could be a bit prettier but it all takes so much time. One of the best sites I use regularly is the 'Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon', but they have several people working on that along with a team of researchers. Here it is just me and you lot. But I enjoy the work.


Re: http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/, the several people and team of researchers is Trevor. (2) Of course the majority of the material is written by others and so cited. But the GL of BC & Y is a good example for a couple of reasons.:

First: haven't changed the format, front page or way it is presented for at least the last 15 years. In other words it isn't eye-candy for the younger viewer.

Second: It grows daily. From 2000+ pages of information it is now more than twice that size and getting larger daily.

When I personally go to a masonic website, I'm looking for substance, that is to say my daily growth in masonic knowledge. I can still find that at the older style websites. The newer ones seem to be all presentation with no lectures available.

A masonic website should be about the subject of Freemasonry IMO. Not a type of fly-paper for potential membership. That said, it appears that the opposite occurs. In the last few years the majority of men wanting membership have contacted us here in BC through the internet. At that point, GL contacts the local Lodge closest to the potentials address and the Lodge Sec takes it from there.
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Re: websites

Postby admin » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:22 pm

Yes Bro. Gord, I understand that Trevor is the driving force, however I have just repeated what he told me. Maybe he was just being modest. Maybe I missunderstood what he said. I complimented him on the web site after the paper he gave at Quatuor Coronati Lodge in London and he said he could not take all the credit many were involved. Ask him.

There is a difference between a Grand Lodge and one individual. There is no way one person could cover the amount of information contained in the BC&Y site. I have a good try but there are not enough hours in the day.

Also if an individual were to publish Grand Lodge or Lodge documents under ULGE that individual would be breaking the Internet rules as laid down by UGLE.

We can publish snippets so long as a link is given to the original site and if any enquiry is made then we must refer the person to an established Lodge or Grand Lodge. No individual can act as a Grand or Local Lodge, or give official advice in any form. Of course BC&Y do not have that restriction.

No one supplies articles or research for Lodgeroom save that what is posted here on this forum. (27)
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Re: websites

Postby piginthepoke » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:49 pm

I just thought I would update what I posted a while ago regarding enquiries via the website. Since we launched our site in Sept 11 we have now had 25 people ask to join our Lodge. That is working out at 3 enquires every 2 months. Phone calls to our low rate number are coming in at half that rate. Of those 25:
    about 1/4 have been from abroad and were referred onto local Lodges or Grand Lodges;
    1/4 have been spam and tossed in the bin;
    1/2 have been worth investigating -
      some have attended social functions
      some have fallen by the way side as unsuitable
      some have been deferred to a later date for various reasons
      with 5 of those emerging as potential candidates

There is definitely interest in joining out there, but make no mistake is takes a lot of effort. We are now in the happy position of wondering how we are going to manage to initiates all 5 in a timely manner - probably by having extra meetings beyond our usual 6 meetings a year.

Agree with the above comment from gord_vokes about content. Content is King from a search engine and user perspective. The more unique, fresh and relevant the better. Looks are important for steering people around a site and engaging them but looks definitely plays second fiddle to content.
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Re: websites

Postby allan0406 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:49 am

I want an official website representing Grand Lodges that I can interact with, join... receive messages and communications from and send messages to.....a members section, were you can subscribe to a particular interest.
The ones in operation are not much better than a read only service.....with the odd contact address, which sometimes we never a reply from. It would be nice if some of our very senior Brethren and officials could comment occasionally on this forum, and others very much like it. Why not !!.....to steal a phrase from somewhere else....were all in this together.
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Re: websites

Postby MrBenn » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:04 am

UGLE does not encourage 'member sections' on websites, in fact, IIRC they will not give a charter mark if your lodge website has such a section

All of the forum's that operate are unofficial and operated independently of any of the GL's - I don't know of any GL that has it's own forum - if GL or PGL officers sign up as members it is in an unofficial capacity and of their own volition

You will not see that type of website from a GL as their business is running a GL, not running a website
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Re: websites

Postby allan0406 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:42 am

Actually there are several websites in the USA where they have membership sections, it is that what I am asking for not a forum, it is a pity our Grand Lodges do not wish to enhance the experience of their users. They do however allow us to have accounts so that t we can part with our money, in the Masonic shop, perhaps then they don't really want our opinions. (44)
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Re: websites

Postby MrBenn » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:22 am

allan0406 wrote:Actually there are several websites in the USA where they have membership sections, it is that what I am asking for not a forum, it is a pity our Grand Lodges do not wish to enhance the experience of their users. They do however allow us to have accounts so that t we can part with our money, in the Masonic shop, perhaps then they don't really want our opinions. (44)



Alan, I was simply answering your comment regarding the non-involvment of GL & PGL officers on forum's in an official capacity from your earlier post - I didn't suggest that you had asked for a forum on the GL website

it is a pity our Grand Lodges do not wish to enhance the experience of their users.
They do however allow us to have accounts so that t we can part with our money, in the Masonic shop, perhaps then they don't really want our opinions.


This comment stumped me - UGLE has spent a large amount of money revamping the website - I'm not sure quite what a "member section" would offer you anyway. Or is this something you are looking for from your PGL? Does their website not meet your needs or "enhance your experience" in the way that you want? You could always offer your services to the PGL web-team if this is something you have experience at - that would be one way fopr influencing the 'experience' - however it may well be that the PGM doesn't want the services that you want to see on the website

Customer accounts for an online shop and member accounts are two different beasts
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Re: websites

Postby allan0406 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:30 pm

Hi Mr Benn I agree with you concerning the UGLE website it is very informative, and I cannot see how a members section would benefit anyone, it was more the PGL's I was thinking about, were members would be much more closely involved, and could gain something from it, rather than it being a read only service. The local Group website is sometimes inaccessible and the members access site, no one can get into it, perhaps one day. That said I gain a lot of tips, advice and ideas of this forum, so I don't really know why I am complaining.
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Re: websites

Postby piginthepoke » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:43 pm

The overriding driver is to not create the impression of secrecy. We have a members site completely separate from our own website that is not indexed by Google so we can carry out administration functions on there with no problem. for that we don't need or want a charter mark :) Problems arise from a public perception when you try to mix everything up together. Needless to say we only have the sort of things that any well oiled and organised body would have. No reason why minutes could be more public if you ask me but day to day nitty gritty would just be yawnsville on the average website never mind a Masonic one
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Re: websites

Postby MrBenn » Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:59 am

allan0406 wrote:I don't really know why I am complaining.


(36)
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Re: websites

Postby mrfrankowski » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:13 am

To me, the biggest problem is with the design of many Masonic websites. They're extremely informative and very useful, but they often don't read well, especially on mobile devices. As someone said before, many Masonic websites are run by regular guys that won't know much about webdesign, but I'm extremely disappointed that professional designers don't want to get involved. I am a designer by trade and I know I'd be more than happy to help.
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Re: websites

Postby gord_vokes » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:27 pm

My compaint is that Masonic websites, to use UGLE for an example, are not written for Masons. Whether or not they are written by masons I'm not sure either.

The old UGLE website was a source of information and I visited quite often. The new one is just eye-candy and not of much use. IMO (7)
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