Recruitment and Retention

Lay out any Complaints and suggestions so we can get to grips with them

Moderators: Peter Dowling, Peter Moir, MrBenn, Peter Taylor, JulesTheBit, middlepillar

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby gcoudert » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:28 pm

Matt Hurley wrote:Just a further point of the comments above.

I have different experiences from the workplace in Scotland and now currently working in England. My experiences of freemasonry in the workplace north of the border, is that it is quite open and accepted, even my management accepted it. My work in Scotland provided many opportunities to meet Brethren in the workplace, but since I have been working in the East Midlands, the "open and accepted" experiences I have seen previously, seem to be a lot more guarded. Also in England it is seen with a certain air of mockery and do I say suspicion. Not sure why there is much of a difference, but it is one that I have noticed.


I think Masons are more visible in Scottish society. Firstly, we tend not to show ourselves in public and when we do, it's without regalia. Secondly, White Tables and Ladies Nights are attended by people who are already sympathetic to our Institution. Finally, our charitable activities are only reported in our own publications.
gcoudert
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:42 am
Location: SE England

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby eddysocer » Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:18 pm

In Mexico there is a mixed feeling about Freemasonry. First, Mexico is a "very" Catholic country. That itself puts Freemasons in a sometimes awkward position since the Church keep telling that you can't be a Catholic and a Freemason; so according to the Church, if you are one, you are in "grave sin", and of course that is an issue to many family members of a Freemason.

The other side of the story is that our national hero, Benito Juárez, was a very prominent Freemason. Each year on his birthday there are several official government celebrations and there are always Freemasons with full regalia on present along with government officials. Most national heroes have been Freemasons, so being one is also a good thing; at least in a patriotic way. State and Church separation at its best.

I don't hide my membership to the Order, but I don't advertise it either. Many Brothers have emblems or stickers in their cars, I am not a fan of showing it off.

Once after a very bad experience in my previous job, I had to quit and my paranoid boss "seized" my computer to find out if was quitting because I was spying for his competitor. The only odd thing he could find in my computer was information regarding Freemasonry; emails and the history of my logging to a Masonic discussion forum like Lodgeroom UK I used to administer. He questioned me very inquisitive why I did not tell him I belonged to the "Lodge" (sic). He seemed very concerned about it and was looking at me with some sort of a fearful look.

Back to the subject of this post, the problem in Mexico is more a retention than a recruiting problem. Many Brothers leave the Order as Fellowcafts, I am positive and have expressed many times my points of view and proposals that the problem lies in a poor attention to the 2nd Deegre. At least in Mexico it does not receive the great importance it should, I feel the 2nd Degree is fundamental for Freemasonry.


Ed
Mankind is an Enigma in search of its own solution
eddysocer
LRUK Newbie
LRUK  Newbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:50 am
Location: Monterrey, Mexico

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby MrBenn » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:15 pm

gcoudert wrote:Finally, our charitable activities are only reported in our own publications.


Definitely not the case these days
"The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead."

mail me : mrbenn@lodgeroomuk.com
User avatar
MrBenn
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:43 am

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Mike Martin » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:32 pm

gcoudert wrote: Firstly, we tend not to show ourselves in public and when we do, it's without regalia.

As one of the guys who has represented the Metropolitan Grand Lodge of London in the Lord Mayor's Parade (twice now) walking in full Regalia in front of thousands of spectators (and even getting mentioned on the telly), I don't think this is really accurate anymore. I think many of us are actively trying to encourage more openess amongst our more "reserved" members and this is happening all across the country.
Mike Martin
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:22 pm

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Trouillogan » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:15 pm

Mike Martin wrote:I think many of us are actively trying to encourage more openess amongst our more "reserved" members and this is happening all across the country.

Yes, I've been trying unsuccessfully for many years to get a change of attitude in my province. A change at the top is fairly imminent so I have hopes when that occurs.
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby gcoudert » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:46 pm

MrBenn wrote:
gcoudert wrote:Finally, our charitable activities are only reported in our own publications.


Definitely not the case these days


Well, I read a few and I have yet to see any mention of what we do!
gcoudert
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:42 am
Location: SE England

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby gcoudert » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:48 pm

Mike Martin wrote:
gcoudert wrote: Firstly, we tend not to show ourselves in public and when we do, it's without regalia.

As one of the guys who has represented the Metropolitan Grand Lodge of London in the Lord Mayor's Parade (twice now) walking in full Regalia in front of thousands of spectators (and even getting mentioned on the telly), I don't think this is really accurate anymore. I think many of us are actively trying to encourage more openess amongst our more "reserved" members and this is happening all across the country.


That's a single event in London, though. In the grand scheme of things, such occasions are still extremely rare. In my Province, there is a Thanksgiving service in full regalia every other year but guess who attends!
gcoudert
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:42 am
Location: SE England

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby MrBenn » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:24 pm

gcoudert wrote:
MrBenn wrote:
gcoudert wrote:Finally, our charitable activities are only reported in our own publications.


Definitely not the case these days


Well, I read a few and I have yet to see any mention of what we do!


A few examples from recent times:

BBC Local news - TV, online & radio
Evening Standard
London Live
ITV
C4 News
Local newspapers from various parts of the country

If you aren't seeing details in a relevant local publication then get on to the provincial office that the publication comes under and make sure they are supplying the newsdesks with the information.
Jounralists and editors wil only be aware of what they are told

If you aren't seeing it then ask why - it is often because the effort hasn't been made from our side to get the news out
"The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead."

mail me : mrbenn@lodgeroomuk.com
User avatar
MrBenn
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:43 am

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Matt Hurley » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:27 pm

Every year at Installation, my lodge parades through the village for about an hour. It is normally a very well supported event, with Brethren and family members all in attendance. It has been videoed and is on Youtube - You can search for it. Lodge Forbes 67 Rosehearty.

I am even in it, albeit only for a few seconds, buried under a woolen hat and heavy winter coat. It is the 2nd Jan in the North East of Scotland after all. :-)
Matt Hurley
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:26 pm
Location: Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Eckywan » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:43 pm

Is it like the tle Trawlermen on TV where the english require subtitles
Or is Fit like loon bad enough

You must be near Charles IRWG of E ?

Frat

Eckywan
Eckywan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Matt Hurley » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:56 pm

I am originally from London, so moving to the North East of Scotland and hearing Doric for the first time, was a bit of a shock but now in the East Midlands. however knew I had been there long enough, as I can watch Trawlermen without subtitles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Matt Hurley
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:26 pm
Location: Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Matt Hurley » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Eckywan,

Yes, not far. He came to Rosehearty a few years back for a installation and had the pleasure of meeting him there

Fraternal greetings

Matt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Matt Hurley
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:26 pm
Location: Newark on Trent, Nottinghamshire

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Eckywan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:18 am

Matt I thought he was nearby!
On the point of RC brethren in mexico ore elsewhere....
I know at least 3 catholic priests who are brethren
and I dont know how many ordinary RCs are involved I just dont ask!!
One lodge near me has traditionally had a lot of brethren of Italian descent / catholics and is well visited by everyone!

on the other hand I know of many lodges mostly in the west where catholics will be blackballed IF they get that far


Eckywan
Eckywan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Trouillogan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:41 am

Eckywan wrote:Matt I thought he was nearby!
On the point of RC brethren in mexico ore elsewhere....
I know at least 3 catholic priests who are brethren
and I dont know how many ordinary RCs are involved I just dont ask!!
One lodge near me has traditionally had a lot of brethren of Italian descent / catholics and is well visited by everyone!

on the other hand I know of many lodges mostly in the west where catholics will be blackballed IF they get that far

Eckywan

THE CHARGES OF A
FREE-MASON
ETC., ETC.
I. Concerning GOD and RELIGION
A MASON is obliged, by his tenure, to obey the moral law; and if he rightly understand the art he will never be a stupid atheist nor an irreligious libertine. He, of all men, should best understand that God seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh at the outward appearance, but God looketh to the heart. A mason is, therefore, particularly bound never to act against the dictates of his conscience. Let a man’s religion or mode of worship be what it may, he is not excluded from the order, provided he believe in the glorious architect of heaven and earth, and practise the sacred duties of morality. Masons unite with the virtuous of every persuasion in the firm and pleasing bond of fraternal love; they are taught to view the errors of mankind with compassion, and to strive, by the purity of their own conduct, to demonstrate the superior excellence of the faith they may profess. Thus masonry is the centre of union between good men and true, and the happy means of conciliating friendship amongst those who must otherwise have remained at a perpetual distance.
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Eckywan » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:07 pm

Well said Trouillogan
BUT all it takes is 3 in a village , to stop ingress of Catholics , or Celtic fans or whatever their beliefs are
Some lodges in south of another country only enter Police or CA's Or even Bankers ( or whatever) as candidates
Is that right? or wrong?
Just a short distance from my house is Duddingston once just a wee village outside Edinburgh ( On south east side of holyrood park)
where the local minister believed all who lived in his parish were his children including non church goers Jews or EVEN Catholics!

His name was John Thomson hence the well known ...on the level ... phrase
We are ALL Jock Tamsons bairns

Fraternally brethren as always

eckywan
Eckywan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Trouillogan » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:35 am

Eckywan wrote:Well said Trouillogan
BUT all it takes is 3 in a village , to stop ingress of Catholics , or Celtic fans or whatever their beliefs are
Some lodges in south of another country only enter Police or CA's Or even Bankers ( or whatever) as candidates
Is that right? or wrong?

eckywan

You already know what the answer is to your question!
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby neilf8 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:09 am

I believe that I read that if a catholic man becomes a Mason he will no longer be able to receive Holy Communion. This is the more modern penalty changed by the last Pope
It used to be Excommunication but some might say that to a Catholic refusal of Communion is practically Excommunication in any event
neilf8
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:55 pm

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Ninth Arch » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:26 am

A life-time friend and colleague of mine was a candidate of mine, into Craft and then into Royal Arch. He has been through the Chairs of both several times. Several years ago he came up to Scotland to see me Installed as 1st Principal of my Scottish Royal Arch. He was so taken at the warmth of his welcome and the friendliness of the Companions that he affiliated (became a joining member). I had the honour of putting him through his Mark and Excellent Masters. He is now a Life Member and comes up whenever circumstances permit (you just can't get rid of some people !). He is a practising Catholic, has no problem with and makes no secret of his membership. His Parish Priest is fully aware of his membership and apart from 'gentle ribbing' gives him no hassle at all and permits him to partake of communion without comment.

I guess it depends on individual attitudes and how 'grown up' and 'worldly wise' a particular Priest's attitude is. There are many worse thing that you could be a member of. The IRA is one thing that springs to mind. I'm sure everyone could think of several others.
User avatar
Ninth Arch
LRUK Master
LRUK  Master
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 3:37 pm
Location: South West Scotland

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Eckywan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:26 am

Way back in the sixties my Father ( paternal )( a brother and a devout orangeman) slagged off the Church of Scotland for allowing a Catholic priest to attend the annual asembly as an observer This was Jock Dalrymple who was the headmaster of a catholic seminary IE he ran college for trainee catholic priests.
In the mid seventies I was the local cop in Lochend in Edinburgh, where Jock had semi retired to be one of 3 parish priests > I attended their youth clubs and often had deep conversations directly with Jock with or without local kids present.. I made my anti catholic views clear and also that I was then a young freemason
both which he accepted and we had many interesting talks none of which showed him to be strongly anti craft. When he died I was made very welcome at my first full requim mass !!
I then got involved with a French brother who IS now a parish priest in Normandy after 20 years working in the Vatican! who really has some good historical information !
When he arrived in Normandy he got some grief from his Bishop and has stopped attending his mother lodge but thats just a local thing he said.

How to retain him ?? and get his bible knowledge and vatican secret libraries ??
Eckywan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: Recruitment and Retention

Postby Harry.Sparks » Wed May 06, 2015 3:54 pm

Forgive me if I sound naïve, I am an EA and only been in the craft a few months. I agree with the above comments about some work places being against masons (because they must believe all the sh*t on google!) Although im lucky enough to have a boss who is understanding of time commitments even though he is not a mason himself. I attended an initiation a few weeks ago and one point brought up at the festive board was trying to attract more young members, myself and the initiate both being early 20's and the youngest there by around 15 years. Also brought up was raising the appearance of masonry via charity events and remembrance Sunday events. But it brings the argument of being seen in the public eye to raise the profile but as mentioned above the prejudice from employers, it could be a bit of a vicious circle. I do feel raising the profile to the public will increase the interest from younger members, as a lot of my friends are now very inquisitive because they had never heard of masonry. And I also believe there would be a lot of brothers willing to take part in events to raise money for charity and the profile, myself included.
Harry.Sparks
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:17 am

PreviousNext

Return to What can be done to Improve Freemasonry

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest