Freemasonry for the 21st century.

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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby kimosabe » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:54 pm

MrBenn wrote:
kimosabe wrote:
Thus a 'masonic science', to me, is an open study of Masonry whereby or whereon (ahem!) (51) anybody can ask and receive the correct answer to any question. In general, I find that if I generate more questions than there are factual answers available, that there's probably less underlying substance than purported to exist.


What if there isn't a correct answer? After all that is precisely what science is - continually proving people wrong

And it may well be not that there is less substance, just it doesn't fit your preconception


"Continually proving people wrong" - Until they or more accurately their assertions are proved right.
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby MrBenn » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:24 pm

Not at all
I don't think science means what you think it does
"The fear of death is the most unjustified of all fears, for there's no risk of accident for someone who's dead."

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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby kimosabe » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:09 pm

MrBenn wrote:Not at all
I don't think science means what you think it does


uh huh...
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby russellholland » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:37 am

kimosabe wrote:...
Thus a 'masonic science', to me, is an open study of Masonry whereby or whereon (ahem!) (51) anybody can ask and receive the correct answer to any question......


Science is discoverable by observation and experiment but as we know, much scientific knowledge is restricted, including as trade secrets and as military secrets.

For example, consider how many early Moon rockets could not even hit the Moon. Even recently the first Indian Moon shot missed. (There are two secrets there, both about the workings of gravity)

Masonic Science, being a science, is open to any person, male or female, that is sufficiently developed morally (spiritually) to be admitted to the hidden mysteries of nature and science.

In every generation there are quite a few admitted to aspects of what we call Masonic Science, but being wise they say little about what they know and do.
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby kimosabe » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:15 pm

This rhetoric is the equivalent of showing a 10 year old with an e-black belt in Minecraft, a steam-driven Victorian merry-go-round and expecting them to be dumbstruck by it, in the same way as Victorian children would have been dumbstruck had they seen Minecraft in 3D. Seriously? You really go for the whole 'we know something nobody else can know' thing?

I think it worth mentioning, with all respect, that the title states 'Freemasonry for the 21st century', so shall we stop collectively pretending we're all moustachioed Edwardian gentlemen who arrived here by hot air balloon and deal with the distinct possibility that Freemasonry needs to be updated, particularly with regard to the way some people relate to it and that any semblance of 'hidden mystery' vanished at precisely the same time as Google and Youtube arrived?

I feel a lot like Ford Prefect in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Just thought i'd say that.
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby russellholland » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:38 pm

kimosabe wrote:... any semblance of 'hidden mystery' vanished at precisely the same time as Google and Youtube arrived.


Recently I was speaking to an aboriginal that had been initiated by some of his tribe's elders. He was explaining to me how he approached a particular sacred site. He said he had to alert the local spirits and he showed me how he did this. He stamped on the ground with a rhythm that I immediately recognized from Masonry.

I was not surprised as I was already aware that the various rhythmic knocks in Masonry relate to different targets.
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby kimosabe » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:09 pm

This thread has had, at the time of writing, nearly 7800 views. That makes it relatively important but for such an important topic (and I claim no fame for asking it), what answers have been forthcoming so far?

Perhaps Freemasonry requires a new mission statement with carefully monitored outcomes, in order to steer it in a new direction; one which matches modern society? Transparency and Openness to show how proud we are to be who we are? Rhetoric or reality?

Playing about with the idea that everything in masonic rituals is unknown, except to those who have joined a lodge, is futile. My feelings are that it's high time the entire organisation asked it's members whether they want to have an open door policy to prospective new members or not. Lodge by lodge. It may well be that some lodges will and that some won't but to work under the assumption that closed doors equals zero prior knowledge, is fallacious.

Just a thought.

Be well all.

K
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby russellholland » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:45 pm

>whether they want to have an open door policy to prospective new members or not.

This is an interesting question. In my view it revolves around whether inner/energy/spiritual events occur in the lodge.

In the local 30th degree the candidate is repeatedly told that he faces dangers that he cannot know, but these are never explained.

The same theme appears in the Kabbalah. Of the 4 rabbis that entered Paradise (the walled garden) only one survived.
http://www.matthewkressel.net/2015/09/1 ... -paradise/

In one of our local lodges, during a practice I had various brethren stand under the crossed wands while I watched the blessing of the GAOTU descend. I only let each stand in the flow of Light for a couple of minutes and one I had to pull out early. Later he commented that he suddenly became quite tired while the others felt energized.

On various occasions as Deacon I have seen the candidate taking the obligation break out into a sweat when all around are cool. This seems to occur when the Light cannot flow smoothly through the body - most often being blocked by the head and/or the heart. The blockages are friction and heat results.

The brother I had to pull out was blocking the Light at the head - perhaps a little opinionated.

It is possible that excessive exposure to some flows of Light may be dangerous psychologically as well as physically.

Long ago I was dealing with a man who had become emotionally unbalanced during an encounter workshop. Without his knowledge a group of people started sending him light. After a few minutes he complained to me that he was being sent light. His problem was that his emotional system was unstable and could not tolerate being stimulated by the light. If the group had sent love then I think the problem would not have occurred. Love integrates while most light pushes forward.

So in my view the problem is: If a lodge is drawing in Light then it is dangerous to those that are not sufficiently refined (moral?) in their personality. If the love is very strong in the lodge then this may reduce the danger.

There may of course be lodges that do not attract much Light so that they operate as social ritual groups.
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby Stevecoath » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:51 am

I nearly didn't take my Raising due to something similar.
I could not physically cross the threshold due to the oppressive feeling.
immediately after the ceremony one of the older visitors came crashing down the steps and face planted heavily on the chequered pavement and then during the Festive Board one of the senior members suffered a heart attack.
Years later one of the other members confided in me that something "felt odd" in the temple that night.

Conversely, several times I have had a completely different feeling.
If you have ever had a really relaxing massage and afterwards you feel like you are floating in a dream state, wrapped in cotton wool. I have experienced this now several times when conducting ritual when everyone is aligned. On the last occasion this "buzz" lasted for several days.

Unfortunately not every Mason gets to experience this.
If your only experience of masonry is listening to members droning out ritual with no understanding of it, while others sit around having private conversations, then rushing through the ceremony so as to get to the bar, shovel down food while talking about work and/or football and then leaving to get home before 9pm, then you will probably never understand the hidden mysteries of nature and science.
However once you do experience this you will never be content to be a "knife and fork mason" again.
Masonry is not just your Mother Lodge.
Sometimes you need to go further afield and keep searching but when you find it, then you will know.
PM Edmonton Latymer Lodge 5026 UGLE (Hertfordshire); PZ Edmonton Latymer Chapter 5026
MM, Gladsmuir MMM 367; Gladsmuir RAM 367; Waltham Holy Cross A&AR 372; Blaise Pascal SRIA 70;
Jacques de Molay KT 670: Walnut Tree Conclave RCC 440;
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Re: Freemasonry for the 21st century.

Postby russellholland » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:13 am

>I could not physically cross the threshold due to the oppressive feeling.

The Inner Guard is supposed to deal with light weight problems such as astral entities but heavy weight dark entities can approach. I have had that in a meditation group but not in lodge.

> conducting ritual when everyone is aligned. On the last occasion this "buzz" lasted for several days.

I have had a buzz last for a few hours.

>probably never understand the hidden mysteries of nature and science.

On most forums the brethren have no interest and some explain vigorously that the hidden mysteries do not exist. It is as if they are on a mission to discourage such studies.
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