Trimming back on lodge memberships

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Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby Peter Dowling » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:27 am

This is in ref. to UGLE masonry. We were discussing the number of orders many of us were in and how we enjoyed some more than others. We said if we could resign from all orders and just stay in one, which would it be. The majority said they would stay in Mark.
The question is, can you stay in a Mark lodge as a subscribing member but resign from the Craft, or do you need to be a subscribing member of Craft to stay a subscribing member of Mark.
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby eric384 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:55 pm

I don't know that you do need to maintain membership of the Craft at the moment, though with GQS introducing the rule that you must maintain Craft membership to continue in Chapter, maybe MMH will look at it. It is my personal view that we should have to maintain any qualifying memberships (as is the case in all Scottish Orders).
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby eckywan2 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:21 pm

I know this is re UGLE
but just confirming Erics point in Scotland where its soooooo different
and membership of craft has to be kept up for all other orders
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby Peter Taylor » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:35 pm

eckywan2 wrote:I know this is re UGLE
but just confirming Erics point in Scotland where its soooooo different
and membership of craft has to be kept up for all other orders

How would know if a Companion (say) was no longer in good standing with his Lodge(s)? Unless he or someone else informs the Chapter?
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby eric384 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:18 am

Peter Taylor wrote:
eckywan2 wrote:I know this is re UGLE
but just confirming Erics point in Scotland where its soooooo different
and membership of craft has to be kept up for all other orders

How would know if a Companion (say) was no longer in good standing with his Lodge(s)? Unless he or someone else informs the Chapter?


We wouldn't know, but we take it that as Freemasons we are honourable men and make the assumption that they will be in good standing.....
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby eckywan2 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:41 am

Good point Peter and presently Erics point is the only protection we have
How about modernising GL and updating to something like the French GLNF system
where their membership status is monitored by GL and brethren are issued with credit card like ID
with their membership number etc !
Its so easy to view that when a visitor turns up,
or apply's to join other order
( French into SRIS for example MWC)
also when arranging visits GL issues a clearance certificate ( by email) which is quick and easy for their staff to do
as it all on the card / computer
If you really want email details can then be compared with the card held by visitor/aspirant
But I much prefer the old way of signs tokens and words as well as Erics point
perhaps both are compatible and when applying to join elsewhere, easier for secretary ( etc) to double check
Frat as always
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby Peter Taylor » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:18 am

eric384 wrote:
Peter Taylor wrote:
eckywan2 wrote:I know this is re UGLE
but just confirming Erics point in Scotland where its soooooo different
and membership of craft has to be kept up for all other orders

How would know if a Companion (say) was no longer in good standing with his Lodge(s)? Unless he or someone else informs the Chapter?


We wouldn't know, but we take it that as Freemasons we are honourable men and make the assumption that they will be in good standing.....

Unfortunately, many Freemasons are not "honourable". I have known of many who are not in good standing, but still visiting, still attending other Orders etc. etc. As a Past Prov Grand Secretary, I have had to pint this out to many who, are either ignorant of the Rules or, simply blatantly flaunt them!
Regards, Peter
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby Peter Taylor » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:28 am

eckywan2 wrote:Good point Peter and presently Erics point is the only protection we have
How about modernising GL and updating to something like the French GLNF system
where their membership status is monitored by GL and brethren are issued with credit card like ID
with their membership number etc !
Its so easy to view that when a visitor turns up,
or apply's to join other order
( French into SRIS for example MWC)
also when arranging visits GL issues a clearance certificate ( by email) which is quick and easy for their staff to do
as it all on the card / computer
If you really want email details can then be compared with the card held by visitor/aspirant
But I much prefer the old way of signs tokens and words as well as Erics point
perhaps both are compatible and when applying to join elsewhere, easier for secretary ( etc) to double check
Frat as always

This gets complicated though! How do you prove that you are still in good standing? You;d have to produced you ID every time you renewed fees? What happens if you're a Life Member of other Orders? For example: I'ma LM of the KTs but rarely attend nowadays. Do I have to make a trip to St Andrews to show my card or scan a copy to send to the Secretary? What if I pay my annual dues by Direct Debit or Standing Order? Similarly, Id have to show my card at some point to the Secretary?

The GLoS database goes some way towards monitoring the status of the Brethren under the auspices of GL but not sure (yet) that and ID card will do much in the way of guaranteeing god standing in all Orders.

Remember, to stay in good standing with GL you must be in good standing with every Lodge you may be a member of. Lapsing, (becoming a Default Member after 2 years of non payment of fees), means you are not allowed to visit any Lodge at all, except any Lodge you may be in good standing with. So you could (and do!) have a situation where a member only pays fees to his (say) affiliate Lodge, but not to the other 3 he is a member off and still visiting and still attending every other Lodge and Order under the sun!
Regards, Peter
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby lew finnis » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:06 pm

The Masonic Order of Athelstan requires subscribing membership of Craft and Chapter, though we have been told we can apply for a dispensation for one member who is being made an Honorary Member by his Lodge and Chapter. I have a feeling that Pilgrim Preceptors also have this requirement. On the other hand, I know of one Freemason who is now only a member of Rose Croix.
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby Peter Dowling » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:40 am

If you resigned from Craft UGLE in good standing all subs paid but remained a member of one degree from MMH, how or why would UGLE know or chase.
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Re: Trimming back on lodge memberships

Postby JulesTheBit » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:19 pm

Peter Dowling wrote:If you resigned from Craft UGLE in good standing all subs paid but remained a member of one degree from MMH, how or why would UGLE know or chase.

It can be done Peter

I used to be involved in a very small "additional degree". We were concerned that there was a perception outside UGLE-land that our members might not support the Craft by maintaining membership, so every year all our members had to produce a clearance certificate indicating that they were still a paid-up member of a Craft Lodge.

That perception from outside was deeply flawed. Our members were demonstrably very strong Craft supporters and we were able to drop the practice.

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