Question about Provincial Honours

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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Thu May 29, 2014 9:40 am

I have another question, actually. If you are appointed to an active (acting) rank, does the Province lend you the regalia or do you still have to buy your own?
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Guy » Thu May 29, 2014 10:30 am

You buy your own regalia. In Hants & IoW the Province lend you the collar jewel for your active year but you are expected to provide the apron and collar.
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Question about Provincial Honours

Postby jackal » Thu May 29, 2014 12:23 pm

^^

Same in Staffordshire


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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Fri May 30, 2014 9:24 pm

I had to buy my regalia including past collar which I will need next year but the Province have supplied my active collar and jewel for my year in office.
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Sat May 31, 2014 9:10 am

So how do they decide who get acting / active ranks? Does it depend on merit? Location? Availability? Am I right in thinking that you have to 'serve' your Province for a year (2 for Stewards)?
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Guy » Sat May 31, 2014 9:45 am

In Hants & IoW, the committee of PMs within a Lodge who fill out the form for a first Provincial Appointment note whether the Brother concerned might wish an active office, taking into account the commitments re time, travel etc. Most members tend to know who is due a first appointment and so in my Lodge the Secretary asks the Brother concerned if he would like to be considered for an active office rather than a Past rank.

At the Group Collars committee, the 'leveling' process takes place and those who have indicated an active office are put forward as such but there is no guarantee they will get it. Hants only has something like 45ish active offices when you remove the likes of the Wardens, Sec, Treas, DC, DepDCs, CharStwd, Mentor and Stewards. It is also likely that if a Brother does get an active office for the year, it may well be at a lower rank than he might have got had he been awarded a past rank, although the year on the circuit does make up for it.
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Sat May 31, 2014 10:09 am

Guy wrote:In Hants & IoW, the committee of PMs within a Lodge who fill out the form for a first Provincial Appointment note whether the Brother concerned might wish an active office, taking into account the commitments re time, travel etc. Most members tend to know who is due a first appointment and so in my Lodge the Secretary asks the Brother concerned if he would like to be considered for an active office rather than a Past rank.

At the Group Collars committee, the 'leveling' process takes place and those who have indicated an active office are put forward as such but there is no guarantee they will get it. Hants only has something like 45ish active offices when you remove the likes of the Wardens, Sec, Treas, DC, DepDCs, CharStwd, Mentor and Stewards. It is also likely that if a Brother does get an active office for the year, it may well be at a lower rank than he might have got had he been awarded a past rank, although the year on the circuit does make up for it.


Thanks for your reply. I will be eligible next year but, because of my work commitments and financial situation (2 children in independent schools), I am dreading an appointment to an active rank although I would love to serve my Province as I have served my lodge. Should I tell my Secretary or wait to be asked?

Also, do Provincial officers - active or past - have to own both full dress and undress regalia?
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Guy » Sat May 31, 2014 5:30 pm

gcoudert wrote:Thanks for your reply. I will be eligible next year but, because of my work commitments and financial situation (2 children in independent schools), I am dreading an appointment to an active rank although I would love to serve my Province as I have served my lodge. Should I tell my Secretary or wait to be asked?

Also, do Provincial officers - active or past - have to own both full dress and undress regalia?


I would have a quiet word with the Secretary and just point out that although you'd love to have an active appointment, your family commitments preclude you from fulfilling the role. Better to be up front than take the role then not enjoy it to the max.

Re regalia - it's a personal choice if you want to buy both. It is quite common around here to see most just wearing the full dress. Personally I like the undress as it keeps the gold frill on the dress apron looking its best for installations or other meetings where dress is required. Most of the suppliers tend to do a good value for money package with both aprons and both collars included for not much more than the cost of the full dress regalia.
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946 GL-BFG
6664, 8859, 9263 RAC
54, 1687, 1796 MMM, 54 RAM
246 OSM & 47 Scarlet Cord
168, 450 RCC
1096 AaAR
ROoS PGL S Counties
185 AMD
226 R&SM
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby norwichman » Sat May 31, 2014 7:57 pm

gcoudert wrote:So how do they decide who get acting / active ranks? Does it depend on merit? Location? Availability? Am I right in thinking that you have to 'serve' your Province for a year (2 for Stewards)?


Bro Coudert
As has been stated each Province is different, however in my own experience who receives honours is a little bit of a lottery and unfortunately sometimes comes down to money and brown nosing!
If you have had a good year as WM, serve the Lodge and support Freemasonry that is all that can be expected of you and you should receive an honour, and as has been stated if you have done all that and are a good ritualist as well as being able to give the time then you should be able to be in line for an active rank and deservedly so!
Where it goes wrong for me is that if you are fortunate enough to have plenty of money to feed the Charity of the Province enough to get a gold gong and are lucky enough to be able to afford to join a Past masters Lodge and PZ Chapter and most especially if you know how to ingratiate yourself to the right people you will almost certainly be offered a good rank whether you are a good Mason or not!

I have unfortunatley met some of the very worst Masons in my life at PM's Lodges and I now simply refuse to attend them but hey that another story!
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Sat May 31, 2014 8:29 pm

norwichman wrote:If you have had a good year as WM, serve the Lodge and support Freemasonry that is all that can be expected of you and you should receive an honour, and as has been stated if you have done all that and are a good ritualist as well as being able to give the time then you should be able to be in line for an active rank and deservedly so!


At the risk of sounding arrogant (not my style), I meet all the above criteria bar the last one, which is why I have been a little apprehensive but I will have a word with our Secretary. Thanks for your input.
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Bernie » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:36 pm

In Northants & Hunts the Stewards are given an Active collar and jewel. It has become somewhat of a tradition for those holding the collar to write their name on the back before passing it on. For other Active ranks I believe it is just the jewel which is supplied.

Stewards are appointed early, usually one or two years out of the chair as a reward for the ritual during their year and the support to their lodge. Other ranks five years out of the chair and there are various criteria, not limited to, but including, attendance and support to the craft during those years and offices held. Past rank is usually given to most. Many of the Active ranks, e.g. Treasurer, Secretary, are reappointments. The wardens, etc, usually given to selected individuals, who have given special service to the Province.

Because of the commitment, financially and time, it would be unusual for someone to be considered for Active rank without some early approach being made, by the Secretary or Grand Officers/VOs. However, as has been stated, if you don't want to be considered, let your Secretary know.
Fraternally,

Bernie


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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:55 pm

gcoudert wrote:So how do they decide who get acting / active ranks? Does it depend on merit? Location? Availability? Am I right in thinking that you have to 'serve' your Province for a year (2 for Stewards)?


Only a year for ProvGStwd in Middlesex
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Rowan » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:00 pm

gcoudert wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I will be eligible next year but, because of my work commitments and financial situation (2 children in independent schools), I am dreading an appointment to an active rank although I would love to serve my Province as I have served my lodge. Should I tell my Secretary or wait to be asked?



Giles, not sure about your province but in Met they now ask the candidates for Active Rank if they are "willing and able" to carry out the duties of Active Rank before they are considered further. In theory this should mean that the successful ones will definitely accept the honour. Downside of course is that there will be a fair number who are asked and say yes but who are not successful and so could be disappointed.

If the same applies to your province I'd be tempted to keep quiet unless you are asked. If you are asked you could enquire more about what it would involve and make a decision based on fact.
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:22 pm

Rowan wrote:
gcoudert wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I will be eligible next year but, because of my work commitments and financial situation (2 children in independent schools), I am dreading an appointment to an active rank although I would love to serve my Province as I have served my lodge. Should I tell my Secretary or wait to be asked?



Giles, not sure about your province but in Met they now ask the candidates for Active Rank if they are "willing and able" to carry out the duties of Active Rank before they are considered further. In theory this should mean that the successful ones will definitely accept the honour. Downside of course is that there will be a fair number who are asked and say yes but who are not successful and so could be disappointed.

If the same applies to your province I'd be tempted to keep quiet unless you are asked. If you are asked you could enquire more about what it would involve and make a decision based on fact.


I was questioned, albeit in a roundabout way, many times by our VO before being offered active rank. He told me what was happening and what I would need to commit to and the costs involved if offered and asked if I thought I could comply with all the above. I am sure my answers to these enquiries went in his report. If you are to be offered an active rank I would expect a VO or representative of the Province would take similar steps even if looking back on it some of the questions were loosely based random ones at a festive board which at the time I might not have realised were relevant!
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:09 am

kingofthecut wrote:Only a year for ProvGStwd in Middlesex


I think two of the four are reappointed so only two new Stewards are appointed each year but I could be wrong.
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:12 pm

gcoudert wrote:
kingofthecut wrote:Only a year for ProvGStwd in Middlesex


I think two of the four are reappointed so only two new Stewards are appointed each year but I could be wrong.


10 to 12 are appointed each year in Middlesex and replace those that served the previous year so all active ProvGStwds are new and in their first and in theory only active year
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby Guy » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:56 am

kingofthecut wrote:10 to 12 are appointed each year in Middlesex and replace those that served the previous year so all active ProvGStwds are new and in their first and in theory only active year


Same in Hants and IoW, except we have up to 18 Stewards a year.
7786, 8859, 9263 UGLE
946 GL-BFG
6664, 8859, 9263 RAC
54, 1687, 1796 MMM, 54 RAM
246 OSM & 47 Scarlet Cord
168, 450 RCC
1096 AaAR
ROoS PGL S Counties
185 AMD
226 R&SM
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:59 am

To return to your question about costs of an active rank my WM who was an active steward last year told me I should expect my active year to cost me personally around £1,000 which includes regalia £100ish), dining on official visits (as you have to pay for yourself and I shall have an estimated 15), joining Provincial Grand Stewards Lodge (£130), travel and of course the extra raffles and charity that adding 20 odd extra meetings will add up too. Wouldn't have missed the installation at Great Queen Street for the world and obviously the honour of accepting office but it will be busy and expensive! My main worry is I am looking for work and if offered a new job I can't say I need these 20 dates off to go out and play!
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby gcoudert » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:17 pm

kingofthecut wrote:I should expect my active year to cost me personally around £1,000


What about acting Standard Bearers, ADCs and Deacons? Would it cost them less / more?
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Re: Question about Provincial Honours

Postby kingofthecut » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:21 pm

gcoudert wrote:
kingofthecut wrote:I should expect my active year to cost me personally around £1,000


What about acting Standard Bearers, ADCs and Deacons? Would it cost them less / more?


Don't know but I would imagine less as Stewards are expected to attend in my case around 15 meetings which you have to pay your own way for but would imagine there are less obligations and commitments placed on other ranks but I have no information. I could easily find out but I am sure someone on here will know. I would estimate including regalia and joining a provincial lodge and the extra meetings for the offices you mention perhaps it would be £500? At a rough guess.
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