Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby eckywan2 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:06 am

David Dont you dare give up. The Edinburgh circumstances were outwith our control and I wont talk about it here
but hopefully Jim will be able to help while he is along the beach a wee bit.
We are both friendly with potential next GMM who may be able to intervene and sort it out locally to you
( another friend is RWM of 851 who meet throuout @summer@ near you)
Its a lodge of research which might interest you and jim or X
slainthe
PS David whats the Irish for come on Croatia ? Croatia Ghu Bhra?
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Trouillogan wrote:..... Also, under UGLE, a brother remains in good standing if he does not owe any money to any lodge at a particular point in time. So an unattached brother who has clearance certificates from each and every lodge of which he has ever been a member, is in good standing.


A am sorry to labour the point but clearly this rule is misunderstood by (for example) folk from Constitutions other than UGLE operating closed groups on Social media. I am currently "an unattached brother who has clearance certificates from each and every lodge of which he has ever been a member, [and] is in good standing." and was astonished to find quite by chance within the last few days that I had been removed from such a group on the grounds that in their terms I am "no longer a Freemason"! To makes matters worse I was told that "“They [the administrators] tend to go through old conversations infrequently and this time round they may have reacted on something that does not hold true.”

Obviously I had no idea of what the situation would be when in good faith I resigned from my Lodge in good standing 18 months ago as a result of relocating permanently more than 600 miles away and made the decision to donate sums in excess of my dues to local charitable causes - particularly food banks. I possibly made the wrong decision but I find such things distressing and depressing.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:32 pm

MrBenn wrote:David - having known you through this forum for some time I do hope you are able to find a way to once again participate in freemasonry, especially as it seems to be something which you enjoy and miss


I can't thank you enough for you comments Mr Benn. I do miss active freemasonry hugely and it is probably more than 2 years since I attended a meeting - sadly, as related on another post my options for participating in any way shape or form are shrinking.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:38 pm

David H wrote:
Trouillogan wrote:..... Also, under UGLE, a brother remains in good standing if he does not owe any money to any lodge at a particular point in time. So an unattached brother who has clearance certificates from each and every lodge of which he has ever been a member, is in good standing.


A am sorry to labour the point but clearly this rule is misunderstood by (for example) folk from Constitutions other than UGLE operating closed groups on Social media. I am currently "an unattached brother who has clearance certificates from each and every lodge of which he has ever been a member, [and] is in good standing." and was astonished to find quite by chance within the last few days that I had been removed from such a group on the grounds that in their terms I am "no longer a Freemason"! To makes matters worse I was told that "“They [the administrators] tend to go through old conversations infrequently and this time round they may have reacted on something that does not hold true.”

Obviously I had no idea of what the situation would be when in good faith I resigned from my Lodge in good standing 18 months ago as a result of relocating permanently more than 600 miles away and made the decision to donate sums in excess of my dues to local charitable causes - particularly food banks. I possibly made the wrong decision but I find such things distressing and depressing.

I'm really sorry to read of your apparent predicament. As I don't know what you mean by 'Constitutions other than UGLE', I'm unable to pass comment on that aspect. Also 'closed groups on social media' are not regular masonic organisations, so I, for one, would take no notice. In regular freemasonry you are quite simply an unattached brother and that is all. Social media has no position in regular freemasonry. I suppose those who run the closed group of which you write, have their own rules just as any independent club might. If they've excluded you, then so be it. That exclusion has no force other than with that group. There are many people, including masons, who have no presence in social media - I'm one! If, heaven forbid, you were excluded from this forum, would that make you any less a freemason? Of course not.

I'm quite sure you will be welcomed in any regular lodge, Scottish, Irish or UGLE. Go for it and forget about social media!
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:53 am

Trouillogan wrote:....'closed groups on social media' are not regular masonic organisations.....

Exactly. My point is that sometimes (albeit rarely) the way such groups are administered causes confusion to the detriment of regular masonic organisations.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby MrBenn » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:00 pm

To be honest I usually find the administrators of these closed groups to be nothing more than egotistical bampots - we used to see it in pre-facebook days with forums springing up left right and centre - now they appear on Social Media as 'closed' groups but the goal is the same - to flatter the ego of the admin
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:49 pm

MrBenn wrote:To be honest I usually find the administrators of these closed groups to be nothing more than egotistical bampots - we used to see it in pre-facebook days with forums springing up left right and centre - now they appear on Social Media as 'closed' groups but the goal is the same - to flatter the ego of the admin


(7) As they say "why don't you tell us what you really think" Mr Benn. I have to say that sadly you are spot on but for the unattached such as myself it has been a good way of keeping in touch. I very much like the approach mentioned in a post on this forum by Julesthebit where he mentioned that members who had resigned in good standing are still kept in the loop as regards notifications. I had no idea being unattached would prove to be such a strange lonely place. On the other hand the uninitiated have absolutely no idea just what a valuable resource this forum is - many friendly knowledgeable people on hand to offer excellent advice etc
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Richard George » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:30 pm

I would guess that 'keeping unattached members in the loop' is easier -and cheaper- than in the past. When the sole method of passing info around was snail mail, we have to remember that postage costs, and unless the secretary dug into his own pocket, those who are paying their subs would not be too happy to know they were subsidizing someone who had resigned - regardless of the reason. Now that most(?) communications are via email, it becomes easier and cheaper as it costs nothing to leave someone on a distribution list.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:15 pm

Richard George wrote:I would guess that 'keeping unattached members in the loop' is easier -and cheaper- than in the past. When the sole method of passing info around was snail mail, we have to remember that postage costs, and unless the secretary dug into his own pocket, those who are paying their subs would not be too happy to know they were subsidizing someone who had resigned - regardless of the reason. Now that most(?) communications are via email, it becomes easier and cheaper as it costs nothing to leave someone on a distribution list.


Excellent point There is much more I could say about this aspect and the apparent imbalance between the treatment of old and young joiners. I was told by a very active WM that currently UGLE's emphasis is on youngsters. I hope I am wrong. I was an old codger when I joined and was very surprised by how many folk I met who like me had joined after retirement. Clearly I am banging my head against a wall to no effect so I am going to concentrate my efforts on finalising arrangements for my golden wedding in few weeks time DV. The machinations of freemasonry are fascinating, complicated and frequently contradictory (as between the different constitutions). I made my bed now I must find some way of making it a little more comfortable, meanwhile thank you all for your kindness and forbearance.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Richard George » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:52 pm

The current emphasis is on the 'youngsters' only insofar as -if we're honest- that's where the future lies.

What I can say, as a former ProvAGSec part of who's remit was to field all interest received via the internet, is that I actually saw relatively few real youngsters; most were in their early/mid 30s. Yes there were a few younger, but the numbers paled in comparison. And there were a number in their late 40s. Older initiates tended to come in via existing members.

As we in Cambridge have two Universities, the intake from the University of Cambridge came in direct to INUL, whereas interest from Anglia Ruskin came in via the internet, so I have a pretty good idea of the age interest - and as I said above, most of it was from slightly older men.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:22 pm

Richard George wrote:The current emphasis is on the 'youngsters' only insofar as -if we're honest- that's where the future lies.



Not necessarily (27) I was initiated at the age of 65 and was very surprised at the number of people I spoke to who, like me, for a variety of reasons waited until they retired, to join. There is a thread on here where I think it is fair to say that the relatively young joiner seems to feel that many of the benefits of Freemasonry as a social club (which I don't believe it to be) were, shall we say misrepresented/exaggerated. I remember being ina line up of recently initiated members, looking like Methusala's grandad, and watching with dismay when the APGM (a really lovely man) launced intomhis welcome to the first (young) chap with the words "Welcome, you represent the future of the Craft" I was extremely embarrased as I stood there mentally humming "It aint necessarily so", because it isn't. I think the emphasis should be on "good" men irrespective of age - anything other than that is simply counter intuitive if you consider current age profiles in terms of time and cash available for wonderful spare time activities such as Freemasonry. For a variety of reason I am no longer attending meetings but I am sure the subs I pay are useful and hearing by email etc about what is going on in the Lodge, whether it is about social events, wing walking, or someone asking for prayers or thoughts for themselves or afamily member is very touching. I simply do not understand why all lodges do not do that for current and members who resigned in good standing. When I put up a thread about country/non dining membersip I was very disappointed to be told that, in effect, their lodge couldn't be bithered to change their by-laws. In that case why don't the powers that be take steps to provide that there are new model by-laws with an automatic provision for country/non dining members with a provision for that clause to be voted down - in other words what would be termed an opt out clause.

There are an ever increasing number of Lodges already formed or in the pipeline under the UGLE and GLoS Constitutions which will take distant/remote applications from existing MM's etc. Surely it is better to offer folk who are either distant/immobile or otherwise a way to maintain a link with Freemasonry rather than, in effect slamming the door in their faces and stopping communicaing with them which simply means adding their email address to a list.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:03 pm

David, I do agree with your main sentiments but UGLE is at pains not to be seen to interfere in the workings of private lodges. so there would not be any diktat about country membership or matters of like import. Yes, there are suggested templates for by-laws but it is for private lodges to make their own decisions. Provinces look at them and any changes to make sure they are within the B of C rules but that's as far as they may go. Other constitutions may, and do, have different ways of management.

As far as the age thing goes, one of my lodges is in the Universities Scheme and we take an altruistic view that the youngsters who get a taste for masonry may well leave after a year or two. They have careers, families, schooling, housing and so on to deal with in their young to middle years and it is only right that those should take priority. If the seed is properly sown and nurtured, in the way you imply, then they may well return to masonry, if not to their mother lodges, later on. In that sense, those youngsters do form the future, without excluding the likes of your good self in that category. With age comes experience - the experience to be able offer guidance. It is also a fact of life that with experience, comes age!
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