Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

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Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Wed May 02, 2018 5:11 pm

Some months back, for entirely different reasons I resigned in good standing from my UGLE and GLoS Lodges. I miss Freemasonry very much and believe that I may visit any UGLE Lodge once. I may apply to rejoin The Internet Lodge. Meanwhile can somebody please let me know whether having resigned in good standing from my GLoS Scotland I Lodge I may attend Lodges within Scotland?
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Thu May 03, 2018 12:53 pm

David H wrote:Some months back, for entirely different reasons I resigned in good standing from my UGLE and GLoS Lodges. I miss Freemasonry very much and believe that I may visit any UGLE Lodge once. I may apply to rejoin The Internet Lodge. Meanwhile can somebody please let me know whether having resigned in good standing from my GLoS Scotland I Lodge I may attend Lodges within Scotland?

Your GLoS Book of Constitutions might have something to say on this subject. I only have an old 1958 GLoS edition in which it says:

'A brother shall not be introduced into a Lodge as a visitor unless he has been regularly vouched for by a Master Mason known to an Office-bearer of the Lodge: or until he has produced his Grand Lodge Diploma, or other evidence of membership in writing signed by the secretary or the Treasurer of his Lodge, and has been examined by two brethren appointed by the master, or any other presiding brother for the purpose, and they submit a favourable report and recommend his admission.'

As I said, this is from an old edition and the current one might be different. I see nothing about brethren who are not currently subscribing members or from other jurisdictions. You could, and perhaps should, check with your local Provincial office as to what your best course may be.

I hope you are successful.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Peter Taylor » Fri May 04, 2018 12:31 pm

From the C&L:
"A Brother shall not be introduced into a Lodge as a visitor unless he has been regularly vouched for by a Master Mason known to the Office Bearers of the Lodge or has been examined and recommended for admission by two Brethren appointed by the presiding Brother who may require written evidence of Qualified Membership"

The Master is also charged at his Installation:
"You promise that no Visitors shall be received into your Lodge without due examination, or producing vouchers of initiation in a regular Lodge".

The key here is the word or.

Be prepared to be tested, but also be prepared to present evidence of Qualified Membership, i.e. Good Standing!
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:01 pm

Peter Taylor wrote:Be prepared to be tested, but also be prepared to present evidence of Qualified Membership, i.e. Good Standing!

Thank you very much Peter, I have a clearance certificate provided by the Secretary of my former Lodge here in Scotland immediately following my resignation. May I assume that amounts to "evidence of Qualified Membership, i.e. Good Standing"? If so would I be correct in assuming that should I visit a Lodge here in Scotland it would be appropriate to wear my Scottish regalia? One last question; when signing in should under the appropriate column should I enter "Unattached" or "Formerly Lodge XXX"

Many thanks indeed for all your help.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:58 am

Very glad that you are coming back into the fold, David. All best wishes.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby MrMason » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 pm

David H wrote:
Peter Taylor wrote:Be prepared to be tested, but also be prepared to present evidence of Qualified Membership, i.e. Good Standing!

Thank you very much Peter, I have a clearance certificate provided by the Secretary of my former Lodge here in Scotland immediately following my resignation. May I assume that amounts to "evidence of Qualified Membership, i.e. Good Standing"? If so would I be correct in assuming that should I visit a Lodge here in Scotland it would be appropriate to wear my Scottish regalia? One last question; when signing in should under the appropriate column should I enter "Unattached" or "Formerly Lodge XXX"

Many thanks indeed for all your help.


This might sound as a bit of a dampener but I've never known "unattached" members to be allowed to sit in Scottish lodges. I was always under the impression that once you resign from a Scottish lodge then that's it, unless you intend to rejoin your previous lodge or indeed a new one. I've certainly never known the English system of visiting each lodge once to be utilised in Scotland.

As far as I'm aware "in good standing" in Scotland means that you are currently up to date with your dues for that specific year or one of the few life members that are left. Once you no longer pay test fees, either by clearance or demit, you are technically no longer in good standing, even if you have left as such.

I never did get the idea of being allowed to visit each lodge once, as I assume is done in England. It seems a bit unfair that someone could go around the country visiting numerous lodges but not really paying into the system so to speak, whilst others still have to pay.

However if things have changed since I was secretary of my lodge then I stand to be corrected. (27)
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:46 pm

Mr Mason, the precise words of the UGLE rule are:

Disqualification to visit
127. In the case of a Brother who has ceased to be a subscribing
member of every Lodge of which he has at any time been a member,
the following provisions shall have effect, viz.:
(i) If he comes within the provisions of this Rule by
reason of his exclusion under Rule 148 or Rule 181, he shall not be
permitted to attend any Lodge or Lodge of Instruction until he again
becomes a subscribing member of a Lodge.
(ii) If he comes within the provisions of this Rule by
reason of his expulsion from the Craft or by reason of his resignation
from the Craft under Rule 183A or Rule 277A, his right to attend any
Lodge or Lodge of Instruction shall be forfeited.
(iii) In any other case he shall not be permitted to attend
any one Lodge more than once until he again becomes a subscribing
member of a Lodge, and upon such one attendance he shall append
the word ‘unattached’ to his signature in the attendance book, stating
therein the name and number of the Lodge of which he was last a
subscribing member.
Nothing in this Rule shall preclude the attendance of a Brother
at any Lodge of which he is an Honorary Member.


Yes, it does seem a bit odd but there you are! Also, under UGLE, a brother remains in good standing if he does not owe any money to any lodge at a particular point in time. So an unattached brother who has clearance certificates from each and every lodge of which he has ever been a member, is in good standing. The visiting rule does not confer a right to visit; it just means that his inactivity cannot be used as a reason to refuse him admission if he has the certificates. He could still be refused on other grounds. In practice it does mean that a brother who has moved to another part of the country can approach as many local lodges as he wishes, to find one that is mutually suitable. It actually deters free-loading.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:48 pm

I believe I am correct in saying that under UGLE whether a subscribing member or unattached there is no "right" to visit any lodge in the sense that it is a privilege and not a right. I stand to be corrected of course.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:52 pm

MrMason wrote:

However if things have changed since I was secretary of my lodge then I stand to be corrected. (27)


OK - I have absolutely now wish to go anywhere I am not welcome or to be seen as some sort of scrounger or ne'er do well.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby MrMason » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 pm

David H wrote:
MrMason wrote:

However if things have changed since I was secretary of my lodge then I stand to be corrected. (27)


OK - I have absolutely now wish to go anywhere I am not welcome or to be seen as some sort of scrounger or ne'er do well.


No one implied you were a scrounger and I'm sorry if you feel that way. My input was that I have never came across any unattached member turning up at any lodge in Scotland for a visit. It seems to be an inception under the English Constitution. Just the way that in Scotland you are not allowed a vote in open Lodge until you're a master mason.

If it were the case we could all demit from our lodges then we could spend the next 10 yrs visiting numerous Scottish lodges once each thereby still having a masonic career so to speak.!!!!
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:37 pm

I would be absolutely delighted to be a member of a Scottish Lodge. I resigned from my last one after my situation became absolutely unbearable after I made a formal complaint to the PGM who was and remains absolutely charming and helpful. However when he moved to help me I was ostracised by the RWM of the Lodge. Incidentally the former RWM who would in the normal course of events become IPM refused to take on the post so as you will realise all was not well with the Lodge. I could have carried on paying my £30 pa dues and simply visited other Lodges but to me it seemed inappropriate to attend those Lodges wearing the regalia of the lodge I was affiliated to when everybody knew I was not attending it. I did apply to another local lodge but sadly over a year of after the enquiry met I was told that may application was rejected, thanks to the actions of my proposer, crony of the RWM of my Lodge who boasted after my rejection that he decided to withdraw his support for but chose to attend the enquiry masquerading as my proposer rather than do the honourable withdraw his support before the meeting so that I could have withdrawn my application!

I subsequently applied to join a Lodge in Edinburgh and obviously ticked the box asking if I had ever been refused affiliation to a lodge. Time went by and I had neither acknowledgement or reply to my application which I fell is an absolutely disgraceful ill mannered way to behave since I made it crystal clear in my applications that there were issues surrounding the rejection of my application.

I have sat in Lodges next to 3 members of this forum at various meetings north and south of the border and also been present at a meeting in Brighton at which Bill was announced although sadly I did not have a chance to meet him, and do not feel I have disgraced myself in any way. My reason for posing the question on this thread was simply because completely out of the blue I had a most welcome from a member here to meet up with him at a meeting hereabouts at some point and I had no idea what the rule is in Scotland.

For me, clearly the fat lady has sung as it appears there is no way for me to join a lodge in Scotland if the behaviour of the one in Edinburgh is typical. It's a very sad demeaning and cruel way to behave but obviously their choice entirely.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:43 pm

MrMason wrote: It seems a bit unfair that someone could go around the country visiting numerous lodges but not really paying into the system so to speak, whilst others still have to pay.


Do you not feel that this rather paints such folks as scroungers? That is of course quite apart from visitors often generous contributions to collections and the purchase of raffle tickets etc
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby MrMason » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:51 pm

If an unattached member is looking for a new lodge I'd have no problem in him attending my lodge for several meetings then apply for affiliation. I'm sure all of our members would be inclined to agree as well. I do however disagree with an unattached member just visiting lodges because some rule says he can, with no real goal at the end.

It does sound like there is some discrepancy in the way your process has been dealt with. Certainly the lodges down my way ask the potential affiliate to attend for several meetings prior to application. This ensures that the brother in question is serious and any issues can be sorted.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:36 am

David H wrote:I believe I am correct in saying that under UGLE whether a subscribing member or unattached there is no "right" to visit any lodge in the sense that it is a privilege and not a right. I stand to be corrected of course.

Yes David, you are absolutely correct. Within some other jurisdictions though, there is an inherent right to visit.
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby Trouillogan » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:40 am

MrMason wrote:If an unattached member is looking for a new lodge I'd have no problem in him attending my lodge for several meetings then apply for affiliation. I'm sure all of our members would be inclined to agree as well. I do however disagree with an unattached member just visiting lodges because some rule says he can, with no real goal at the end.

It does sound like there is some discrepancy in the way your process has been dealt with. Certainly the lodges down my way ask the potential affiliate to attend for several meetings prior to application. This ensures that the brother in question is serious and any issues can be sorted.

I will say that the rule is more honoured in the breach than in the observance! Fortunately common sense seems to prevail. (14)
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Re: Unattached - may I visit in Scotland

Postby David H » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:47 pm

Trouillogan wrote:Yes David, you are absolutely correct. Within some other jurisdictions though, there is an inherent right to visit.


Well my dear friend I am delighted to have got something right at last (7)
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