Made up names?

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Re: Made up names?

Postby Richard George » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:59 am

And I don't find it at all surprising that Solomon would name something after one of his ancestors; both my sons carry the names of their grandfathers in the case of my eldest son, and their great grandfathers in the case of the youngest. And B was of course, Solomon's great great grandfather.

http://www.sheknows.com/baby-names/name/B

Url is abbreviating - follow it and type the complete word in lowercase. Presumably it's a setting on this forum. Bill? The definition from a non Masonic site is interesting.
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Re: Made up names?

Postby Peter Taylor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:30 am

Mike Martin wrote:Peter, he asked specifically about the Pillars :)


Peter Taylor wrote:
kimosabe wrote:There is no person in the OT specifically named HA and that is because he is the "Masonic allegory" that has been superimposed onto an Old Testament story, common in past times to illustrate the Masonic ideal.
- Indeed there is no HA. But when two specific Hirams are mentioned (one also as Huram) in relation to KST, neither of which relate to anyone surnamed 'Abiff', why not just go with one of them and use their names allegorically?.... although I will accept the rest of the 3rd to be an enjoyable work of fictional allegory. This is the stuff of Indiana Jones, not something to swear oaths on any VSL over. I think it should be corrected or made very clear because it could cause a feeling of disrespect.


Like I said earlier:

1 Kings 7:13King James Version (KJV)
13 And king Solomon sent and fetched Hiram out of Tyre.

2 Chronicles 4:16
The pails, the shovels, and the meat-forks, and all the utensils Huram-abi made of polished bronze for King Solomon for the house of the Lord.

I was responding to this earlier, when a statement was made, which is wrong! I know his OP was about the pillars.
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Re: Made up names?

Postby Peter Taylor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:32 am

kimosabe wrote:
Peter. I'm not "playing" and you just seem to be saying 'yes they were', without thinking about what i'm specifically asking.


I never said you were playing?
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Re: Made up names?

Postby Mike Martin » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:43 am

Peter Taylor wrote:I was responding to this earlier, when a statement was made, which is wrong! I know his OP was about the pillars.

I see that now, apologies.
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Re: Made up names?

Postby Richard George » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:07 pm

Trouillogan wrote:We should also bear in mind that there are no vowels in written Hebrew, that the biblical accounts have been copied many times over and have redactions, also that 'abi'/'abiff' etc. was a term implying 'master', expert', 'minister' and like meanings and not a name.

In Josephus' 'Antiquities of the Jews' you will find 'Booz' mentioned. J did not officiate in any way - Solomon himself did the dedication, according to the biblical account.

Very good to see this and other enquiries going on!


Assuming he was 'the assistant high priest', and given that the bible states that 'the priests took up the ark' (1 Kings 8:1-6) and carried it into the Temple, it seems reasonable that he did in fact, 'officiate' - as the ark was the resting place of the Lord prior to the construction of the Temple, it would have been transported with some pomp and ceremony, and the Assistant High Priest would have been of some importance in that I'd have thought.
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Re: Made up names?

Postby Peter Taylor » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:54 pm

Richard George wrote:
Trouillogan wrote:We should also bear in mind that there are no vowels in written Hebrew, that the biblical accounts have been copied many times over and have redactions, also that 'abi'/'abiff' etc. was a term implying 'master', expert', 'minister' and like meanings and not a name.

In Josephus' 'Antiquities of the Jews' you will find 'Booz' mentioned. J did not officiate in any way - Solomon himself did the dedication, according to the biblical account.

Very good to see this and other enquiries going on!


Assuming he was 'the assistant high priest', and given that the bible states that 'the priests took up the ark' (1 Kings 8:1-6) and carried it into the Temple, it seems reasonable that he did in fact, 'officiate' - as the ark was the resting place of the Lord prior to the construction of the Temple, it would have been transported with some pomp and ceremony, and the Assistant High Priest would have been of some importance in that I'd have thought.


For info:
The High Priest at the time of the Temple was Zadok. Zadok (Hebrew: Tsadoq, meaning "Righteous") or Zadoq is a legendary priest, said to be descended from Eleazar the son of Aaron (1 Chron 6:4-8). He aided King David during the revolt of his son Absalom and was subsequently instrumental in bringing King Solomon to the throne. After Solomon's building of The First Temple in Jerusalem, Zadok was the first High Priest to serve there. Zadok was appointed as chief priest at Jerusalem by Solomon (I Kings ii. 35), and Zadok was held to be a descendant of Eleazar, the son of Aaron (II Chron. v. 34).

The Great Sanhedrin alone had the right to appoint, or confirm the appointment of, the high priest. His consecration might take place only in the day-time. Two high priests must not be appointed together. Every high priest had a "mishneh" (a second) called the Segan, or "memunneh", to stand at his right; another aid was the "Catholicos" (Yad). The right of succession was in the direct, or, the direct failing, the collateral, line, provided the conditions concerning physical fitness were fulfilled.

For me it would seem unlikely that Zadok didn't officiated at the dedication, but maybe he was ill, or wasn't appointed HP until after it was completed and dedicated, so an interim "assistant" took over. Then question is "why wasn't he appointed HP?"
Regards, Peter
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Re: Made up names?

Postby admin » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:08 am

You've all got your thinking heads on.
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