General observation on younger brethren

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General observation on younger brethren

Postby Flaxgord » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:40 pm

A general observation, I've noticed that younger joining brethren who have family and work commitments (me included) which our older brethren never had to experience, are often the target for " if you can't commit to something why join" in modern day alas things are a lot more faster pace i.e shift workers, people on call, house husbands ect.. These factors are not recognised immediately by the older brethren. Hopefully I do not offend bro's by saying this, as I said originally its an observation.Bro's I'd like to hear your views.

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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Peter Taylor » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:19 pm

I agree! and it's a point that I have made in the past to so-called "older" members!
Decades ago a man could raise his family without any or much income form the wife; nowadays it is very different! It takes two full time wages to raise a family, and very often the wife earns more money than the husband!
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General observation on younger brethren

Postby Flaxgord » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:55 pm

This should be raised and kept on being raised with UGLE and equivalent, the only trouble is centrally this negative attitude will be frowned upon,however, locally it will still be the mindset.
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Trouillogan » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:13 pm

There is a solution, not down to UGLE but in the hands of each Lodge. It may not suit all, particularly those in the larger conurbations such as London and it is common practice outside UGLE.

One of the main difficulties which affects almost all ages, is that of the timings of the Masonic evenings. Would you not see it as beneficial for the working members to be able to arrive refreshed, not having had to fight rush hour traffic, with their minds focussed on the evening's labour and pleasure? Would you not see it as beneficial for the more elderly of us not to have to be fighting a late meal in the wee small hours? Would you not see it as beneficial to be able to invite as many guests as you like without having to worry about costs - and to be invited without feeling guilty about the cost to your host? Would you not think it beneficial to be able to mingle after the meeting with whomsoever you wish, instead of being fixed in a seat at the whim of the dining steward? Do you really look forward to all those speeches and the toasts that give you indigestion by having to bob up and down all the time?

Be prepared for a different way of organising the evening!

Return home from work, eat normally and at the normal time, so your digestive routine is undisturbed and with any dietary needs properly looked after. Get changed in civilised surroundings, rather than in a filthy bog somewhere or having worn your kit all day, with the occasional snigger from those around you at work who think they know. Travel to Lodge outside rush hour and when parking may well be free. Your Lodge starts at 8pm - yes eight at the latest! Afterwards you mingle in the bar chatting to all, with a cup of tea or a pint or a nip in one hand and one or two small finger bites in the other. The cost of this is minimal - a pound or so. There's no cooking or serving staff to be paid for. You relax with your guests amongst your brethren, introducing them around making new friends. You may wish to toast a candidate and wish him well but that's about all. You make your way home arriving at about the same time as now and you get to bed with your meal already well digested.

Oh, and it means any visiting hierarchy can also arrive refreshed and outside rush hour and returning at the 'normal' time.

What could be simpler?

If you are asking, this is done in Ireland and very similar in Scotland. So there's nothing unusual in it. At installations you may do a bit more than snack and you may start a bit earlier but that's just once a year.

The really difficult bit is trying to get it past your GP Committee but I can't for the life of me think why that should be.
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Flaxgord » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:33 pm

Trouillogan wrote:There is a solution, not down to UGLE but in the hands of each Lodge. It may not suit all, particularly those in the larger conurbations such as London and it is common practice outside UGLE.

One of the main difficulties which affects almost all ages, is that of the timings of the Masonic evenings. Would you not see it as beneficial for the working members to be able to arrive refreshed, not having had to fight rush hour traffic, with their minds focussed on the evening's labour and pleasure? Would you not see it as beneficial for the more elderly of us not to have to be fighting a late meal in the wee small hours? Would you not see it as beneficial to be able to invite as many guests as you like without having to worry about costs - and to be invited without feeling guilty about the cost to your host? Would you not think it beneficial to be able to mingle after the meeting with whomsoever you wish, instead of being fixed in a seat at the whim of the dining steward? Do you really look forward to all those speeches and the toasts that give you indigestion by having to bob up and down all the time?

Be prepared for a different way of organising the evening!

Return home from work, eat normally and at the normal time, so your digestive routine is undisturbed and with any dietary needs properly looked after. Get changed in civilised surroundings, rather than in a filthy bog somewhere or having worn your kit all day, with the occasional snigger from those around you at work who think they know. Travel to Lodge outside rush hour and when parking may well be free. Your Lodge starts at 8pm - yes eight at the latest! Afterwards you mingle in the bar chatting to all, with a cup of tea or a pint or a nip in one hand and one or two small finger bites in the other. The cost of this is minimal - a pound or so. There's no cooking or serving staff to be paid for. You relax with your guests amongst your brethren, introducing them around making new friends. You may wish to toast a candidate and wish him well but that's about all. You make your way home arriving at about the same time as now and you get to bed with your meal already well digested.

Oh, and it means any visiting hierarchy can also arrive refreshed and outside rush hour and returning at the 'normal' time.

What could be simpler?

If you are asking, this is done in Ireland and very similar in Scotland. So there's nothing unusual in it. At installations you may do a bit more than snack and you may start a bit earlier but that's just once a year.

The really difficult bit is trying to get it past your GP Committee but I can't for the life of me think why that should be.



Very descriptive reply, however, not answering my observations! My observations were younger bro's who have operational jobs, firemen, police, law enforcement, medical arena the list goes on. I noticed how younger bro's enjoy Freemasonary however, are unable to dedicate the amount of time a grocer, lawyer, sales professional ect can offer. The older bro's often do make comments, along the lines of "why join if you cant dedicate x amount of hours". I t has nothing to do with dining, its more to do with progression through the ranks,correct me if I am wrong but I was under the belief the priority is/was 1) Family life 2) Work life and then 3) Freemasonary. As far as my observations go the older bro's do not adhere to the latter. (28)
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby bboy » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:02 am

It's trying to juggle everything that's the problem. I have two young daughters who are in bed for 7pm. I have to leave for my meetings at 6:15pm which means I leave before they're in bed wich adds to my wifes woes!!! Lodges probably tyle at 7pm or there abouts to accommodate the members when our towns and cities were smaller and men finished work by 5pm and didn't have top travel too far to get home. Now we have members travelling from far and wide.

Anyone taking up office has to be aware of the comitment expected of them. It's a balancing act for many of us, especially with work commitments etc. You don't have to be out visiting every night of the week, but some old - retired - members expect that. Just because you visit extensively doesnt make you a good Mason.

We all have external pressures on our working/family/social/masonic lives but some of the older members do make an issue of it, which is wrong. People are having their families later in life these days.

We're supposed to be compassionate and caring, but some like to have a go and preach to the rest (8)
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby ozmike » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:12 pm

I'm not a UGLE Mason but have visited a few times in London. What I find surprising is how many weekday lodges meet so early at 5pm! My lodge meets at 7pm and we find that some people are even running late to that. Perhaps an idea is to move the meeting time to something a bit later 6 or 7pm to accommodate what I would imagine are the majority of brethren who can get away from work before 4 or 5pm. Maybe even more lodges should meet on a Saturday during the day?

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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Rowan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:21 pm

My lodge meets at 4pm which is fairly standard here in London.
My chapter meets at 6pm which is considered unusual!
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Trouillogan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:45 pm

The earlier starting times in London would be to enable brethren working in London to catch trains home afterwards to get home at a reasonable hour. This probably works because they don't have far to travel from the office to their lodges.
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby bboy » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:12 pm

We do tend to travel further to our Lodges these day. I suppose at one time most would have lived reasonably locally to their Lodge. We now have people moving to other parts of the country but still atending their own Lodges, perhaps we should simply affiliate to one closer to either our family or our work?
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby kevin.meader » Wed May 01, 2013 10:23 am

My lodge also meets at 4pm in London but we have a run through before hand which starts at 1pm so I leave from home at 11 am and travel up by train so have to take the day off (19)
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Trouillogan » Wed May 01, 2013 12:23 pm

As I implied, London is different!
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby rjgs » Wed May 01, 2013 2:00 pm

For London Lodges meeting at Freemasons' Hall , I understand that the building closes at 8pm. This is one factor that prevents Lodges in London meeting later.
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Trouillogan » Wed May 01, 2013 6:46 pm

rjgs wrote:For London Lodges meeting at Freemasons' Hall , I understand that the building closes at 8pm. This is one factor that prevents Lodges in London meeting later.

I bet it doesn't close that early when they have a non-masonic event on!
Ah well, that's completely screwed my dark blue! (31)
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General observation on younger brethren

Postby Flaxgord » Thu May 02, 2013 7:09 pm

Trouillogan wrote:
rjgs wrote:For London Lodges meeting at Freemasons' Hall , I understand that the building closes at 8pm. This is one factor that prevents Lodges in London meeting later.

I bet it doesn't close that early when they have a non-masonic event on!
Ah well, that's completely screwed my dark blue! (31)



I concur!
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Richard George » Thu May 02, 2013 7:22 pm

ozmike wrote:Maybe even more lodges should meet on a Saturday during the day?


Don't bet on it! We're a Saturday lodge, and some of the members are trying to get it changed!
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General observation on younger brethren

Postby Theinnerguard » Fri May 03, 2013 8:09 am

I bet. Saturday meetings are no good for people with young children.
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby MrBenn » Fri May 03, 2013 1:34 pm

I'm a member of a lodge that meets on Saturday afternoon and it works fine for me
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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby pockets » Sat May 25, 2013 9:43 am

It seems I am lucky with my Lodge then.
Last year I was asked if I would like to become IG and start on the floor, I am still a newer member with a youngish child and my job involved shift work. I explained this to the older members and they said it wont be a problem as they and other PM's would fill in for me when I couldn't make it. Needless to say that last year I was IG and only managed to make half of the meetings and nobody made any comments. It seems to me so long as you make the effort and try your best you will get support.
I feel the older members have been very supportive and offer help and advice. I can't commit as much time as I would like but I do what I can and enjoy it.
I would suggest to anyone who wants to have a go at something to not be put off by what is probably a minority of opinion. If you have some support and want it then do it.

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Re: General observation on younger brethren

Postby Trouillogan » Sat May 25, 2013 11:03 am

Flaxgord wrote:I t has nothing to do with dining, its more to do with progression through the ranks,correct me if I am wrong but I was under the belief the priority is/was 1) Family life 2) Work life and then 3) Freemasonary. As far as my observations go the older bro's do not adhere to the latter.

Exactly, it has nothing whatever to do with dining. So the Irish method takes that out of the equation completely and concentrates on timing so that the employed brethren have fewer barriers to overcome in order to attend with their minds in tune with what is to come. I have mentioned other side benefits but this is what I see as the main aspect.
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