Rank in Freemasonry

[wayne cowley]

The answer is that all Provinces should adopt a version of the London system.

2 "honourific" Ranks only: Grand Rank and Senior Grand Rank.

You only get nice ranks to go on your apron once you serve in that Office in Metropolitan Grand Lodge.

Jumps into dugout screaming "INCOMING"

Mike

No argument from me - I have been advocating that down here for ages

Wayne

[Chestnut]

There seems to be a growing ground swell of those willing to talk about the fact that the system of honours is flawed. Not only here but also in Freemasonry Today over the last couple of issues.

I have spoken on many occasions regarding this topic. The Promotion and advancement issue is one which has nothing to do with FM and its teachings. Now I know some must rule and teach. I have no issue with that and those are active ranks and thoroughly deserve our respects. When they finish these positions they should then recieve the past rank.

I feel its a shame that those who have been active rank end up being dumped into the Past rank with no acknowledgement of the fact that they did do the job.

Anyone else who falls outside this trap, the time served mason can get Provincial Rank, Provincial Grand Rank or Senior PGR.

Unfortunately the current arrangement is unlikely to be overturned as like Turkeys voting for Christmas the current oligathy will not agree.

With respect to the career. It seems to be misinterpreted as to a career involving promotion rather than a career gaining knowledge.

[Mike Martin]

Yes I noticed I'd left out London Rank for non-Installed Masters, I think I watched 6 or 7 guys get that last year, but I had to go off and do other stuff.

There seems to be a growing ground swell of those willing to talk about the fact that the system of honours is flawed. Not only here but also in Freemasonry Today over the last couple of issues.

Unfortunately the current arrangement is unlikely to be overturned as like Turkeys voting for Christmas the current oligathy will not agree.

I feel there is a sea change coming.

I don't quite get the same disgusted looks I used to a couple of years ago when I'm brandishing my IM's apron about and waffling on about "honours me have a laugh, I'm not quite ready yet"

Mike

[rjgs]

I don't mind those who are awarded rank for service and are humble with it.

[Lobbus]

I have now been in Masonry for 30 years in two different jurisdictions, and have finally made it to SD! Bully for me. I am just as happy now in my freemasonry as I was when I was initiated in 1979, I feel not in the least intimidated by those of higher "rank" than myself, because I know that as a rule my knowledge of what Freemasonry is about is usually in no way inferior than those who sit on Olympus and make weighty pronouncements.

My pleasure derives from learning the history of our Order, exchanging ideas, discussing our commonalities (and our differences!), probing into the nooks and crannies of old lodge halls and lodge archives,for treasures (to us) that have lain undisturbed, sometimes for centuries and bringing them to the notice of others. That to me is joy, not what colour my apron is!

I recently had four private guests to my lodge in Bournemouth, two were Grand Officers and the other two, who are masonic historians,are senior Provincial Grand Officers. Rank in this case was irrelevant, knowlege of our masonic heritage certainly was, and made for an unforgettable masonic evening.

My lust is for more wisdom, not funny coloured aprons, I am sure that if anyone kowtowed to me I would be most embarrassed!

[Trouillogan]

With you all the way, as you know. That Dorset expedition has been truly amazing in what it revealed, both there and at GQS.

[Janner]

... I am sure that if anyone kowtowed to me I would be most embarrassed!

All hail Lobbus, we are not worthy

Artists impression of Lobbus

[Lobbus]

Bro. Janner,

I look forward to you prostrating yourself before me at the next meeting of the QC, you will recognise me by my blue apron (a rare item in these spheres,and therefore collectable) and ruddy visage surmounted by a big nose and silly beard!

I am usually accompanied by Troulligan, who wears a technicolor apron.

[Janner]

[traveller]

I can honestly say that every time I've seen any kind of upset or 'Lodge politics' trouble within a Lodge, promotion or promotion seekers have always been at the bottom of it somewhere........ which is why I choose to decline all offers of promotion and will NEVER take the chair in craft (or anything else) again.

I don't and won't criticise anyone for taking promotion but it's not what I joined Freemasonry for.

[Lobbus]

I have recently seen a lodge riven in half because the WM would not allow the SD to act as JD when a friend of the SD was about to be initiated. In response, the SD, his father (a PM of the lodge), his twin brother and his pals resigned en masse taking the candidate with them and joined a lodge in another province.

A consequence of this is that I have been asked to accept an office in this lodge.


Is this the spirit of the times ?

[Chestnut]

How very sad and totally pointless.

I often wonder what has happened to Brotherley Love!

[JB]

How very sad and totally pointless.

I often wonder what has happened to Brotherley Love!

I often feel the same as you do, there are those who are only in it for personal glory, which disappoints me greatly, surely the Lodge is much more important than any individual?

I know of one particular IPM who should practice that Virtue and then some!

[Chestnut]

An important lesson was learnt by me through an observation off an incident recently. A Brother who was to be WM next year, but who had struggled and over the years alienated a few in the Lodge with his outspoken views and attitude, decided to resign 3 months prior to the Chair. The Lodge said OK picked itself up and carried on, electing a new ME. Within a week the Brother who had resigned was not being spoken about and apart from the Secretary making contact. nobody got in touch.

I learnt that no matter how important, you think you are, the others most certainly have a different opinion.

[traveller]

I agree that the Lodge (usually & thankfully) survives but I do feel that it's more often than not damaged by such incidents .......and from my experience most of that damage is caused by those very few who choose to persue promotion for it's own sake instead of considering the real meaning and purpose of the brotherhood.

That said, although I reckon I've identified the problem, I'm afraid I don't know the solution.

[Chestnut]

I agree that the Lodge (usually & thankfully) survives but I do feel that it's more often than not damaged by such incidents .......and from my experience most of that damage is caused by those very few who choose to persue promotion for it's own sake instead of considering the real meaning and purpose of the brotherhood.

That said, although I reckon I've identified the problem, I'm afraid I don't know the solution.

Whilst promotions, appointments, salutes, salutations etc form a part of a meetings proceedings over and above meaningful lectures and education the problem will remain. Hopefully the Mentor system will help. But it is only as good as those selected by the Lodge to do it.

[traveller]

We don't have the mentoring system out here....... how does it work?

[Chestnut]

Simple a new Brother will be assigned a Mentor who will discuss, assist and advise them through their progression, certainly the degrees and further if they wish.

[traveller]

OK, thanks. That's pretty much what I assumed. I can certainly see it working if the mentor is chosen carefully and is not a promotion chaser himself. If he is, then I guess he could well just encourage the bad habit into the next generation of Masons.

I'm beginning to think there's a good argument for scrapping the (at least) past ranks entirely. That way, whatever is done, is done for the love of Freemasonry only and everyone is not only equal but seen to be equal. Certainly a lot of dark blue wearers here seem to think that they are entitled to different treatment etc from the rest of the lodge members. I accept we need active rank but maybe it would be a good idea for members to revert to light blues when they cease active duties.

Hope I don't sound too radical there!

[Trouillogan]

I have recently seen a lodge riven in half because the WM would not allow the SD to act as JD when a friend of the SD was about to be initiated. In response, the SD, his father (a PM of the lodge), his twin brother and his pals resigned en masse taking the candidate with them and joined a lodge in another province.

From which, may we assume that said WM (and others) made an advancement in Masonic knowledge? A very high price, though.