"Because that's how this lodge does it"

Reports and comments concerning UGLE

Moderators: MrBenn, JulesTheBit, middlepillar

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby Trouillogan » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 am

David H wrote:
Trouillogan wrote: David H has his copy of the book. It has been worth it - possibly saved the lodge.

I do indeed and it is something I treasure alongside many happy memories of the Lodge

Thank you David. What you say has also made it all worth while.
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby kimosabe » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Thanks for the BoC quote which I wasn't previously aware of. It does use the word 'proceedings' and not 'ritual' though. Being "...able to regulate it's own proceedings..." doesn't sound like the same thing as being able to re-write ritual though and doesn't seem to be a defence of ritual but more of a suggestion that ritual is not a fixed thing; which I always thought it was.

I think it comes down to me not being able to balance the generally prevailing 'rules is rules' dogma, with the superimposed 'but we do it this way' conundrum. I'll get over it, probably.
kimosabe
LRUK Fellow
LRUK  Fellow
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:21 am

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby Trouillogan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:35 am

kimosabe wrote:Thanks for the BoC quote which I wasn't previously aware of. It does use the word 'proceedings' and not 'ritual' though. Being "...able to regulate it's own proceedings..." doesn't sound like the same thing as being able to re-write ritual though and doesn't seem to be a defence of ritual but more of a suggestion that ritual is not a fixed thing; which I always thought it was.

I think it comes down to me not being able to balance the generally prevailing 'rules is rules' dogma, with the superimposed 'but we do it this way' conundrum. I'll get over it, probably.

The explanation for this is slightly complicated and stems from the debate in Grand Lodge on 1 Dec 1926 concerning the use of the in extenso BIM during installation. The full story is given in AQC vol 84 pp. 26-68 and is also referred to in paragraph (9) of the section headed 'Demonstrations of Ritual' in the booklet Information for the Guidance of Members of the Craft that accompanies the B of C. In short, 'proceedings' is held by Grand Lodge to include ritual matters.

Further to your mentioning it, ritual is definitely not a fixed thing and has developed in many different ways down the centuries, resulting in the current situation where we have some forty or so 'named' ritual systems and many more that are specific to particular lodges. To be absolutely clear, Grand Lodge distances itself from matters of ritual and has never given its approval or authorisation to any particular system but on the contrary has supported the freedom provided by rule 155 in this respect.
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby kimosabe » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:38 pm

Many thanks Trouillogan. May I enquire how you were able to find that reference? Presumably not through an encyclopaedic knowledge of AQC? ;)

I've been pondering whether or not to join QCCC for some time, as I really don't want to turn my experience into an academic pursuit or to add yet another lapel pin option to my steadily growing collection but sometimes I do like to know a bit of background. Could be worth a shot for a year to see what might come of it.
kimosabe
LRUK Fellow
LRUK  Fellow
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:21 am

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby Trouillogan » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:29 am

kimosabe wrote:Many thanks Trouillogan. May I enquire how you were able to find that reference? Presumably not through an encyclopaedic knowledge of AQC? ;)

I've been pondering whether or not to join QCCC for some time, as I really don't want to turn my experience into an academic pursuit or to add yet another lapel pin option to my steadily growing collection but sometimes I do like to know a bit of background. Could be worth a shot for a year to see what might come of it.

Far from any encyclopaedic knowledge! Having been a member of the QC Correspondence Circle for longer than i care to remember and a member of the lodge for a few years now, I have a fair collection of AQC volumes, all of which I have read. Lodge members have access to a searchable digital index (so I cheat a little!), which I'm pressing to have put on the web site. Back number of AQC are available from several masonic book sellers but only the new annual volumes are provided to 'Circle' members. So, yes, I would say it's well worth joining (you can do so on line in a few clicks now) for anyone interested in what i would call the real masonic information sources. Of course, there are some valuable academic research papers in there but there are many more shorter and topical articles of wide interest that are eminently readable by us ordinary mortals. Regular 'Circle' members also have the right to attend the lodge meetings and you get to meet and talk with all manner of interesting brethren from around the world. Go for it!
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby Trouillogan » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:42 pm

kimosabe wrote:Many thanks Trouillogan. May I enquire how you were able to find that reference? Presumably not through an encyclopaedic knowledge of AQC? ;)

I've been pondering whether or not to join QCCC for some time, as I really don't want to turn my experience into an academic pursuit or to add yet another lapel pin option to my steadily growing collection but sometimes I do like to know a bit of background. Could be worth a shot for a year to see what might come of it.

I'm now glad to say that the inclusion of a searchable index to the AQC volumes is now on the Quatuor Coronati web site, as are some early volumes and all the QCA reprints. The index only goes up to volume 127 at the moment; the two most recent will be added shortly. You will find the index under 'Research Resources' on the small separate menu. I must now get the site navigation sorted out as it's quite Byzantine through too many untutored hands dipping into the pot.
User avatar
Trouillogan
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 2929
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby JohnXRV » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:47 pm

This is the type of post I find very interesting and illuminating as a mere EA (hopefully FC in a month's time)

In my lodge we always square the floor, there's a different sign for the prayer and you aren't allowed gloves until you're a MM. I've only been to two other lodges and the glove thing got me in a right cafuffle as I didn't have any (helpfully resolved by my fellow masons at the time).

There are other things which I don't know as I don't have the ritual book but I can hear the old boys tutting and muttering as the ritual is worked (27)

Thank you for your knowledge and for sharing it brethren
JohnXRV
LRUK Newbie
LRUK  Newbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:23 am

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby eckywan2 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:12 pm

Good luck on your journey Bro John
Keep asking questions !
eckywan2
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:59 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: "Because that's how this lodge does it"

Postby russellholland » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:44 pm

I belonged to a small Scottish lodge (in the antipodes) and left. 20 years later I was back and they were doing the FC sign quite differently and had no memory having changed.

In my view the earlier form was closer to the ancient Egyptian version.
russellholland
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
LRUK Grand Supreme Master
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:14 am

Previous

Return to United Grand Lodge of England

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron