Recognition

[asabovesobelow]

One could also ask the question as to why the the mainstream (white) US GLs (via COGMiNA) do not pass a resolution to derecognise the current 9 mainstream US GLs in the south that have not yet recognised their PHA counterpart. The 9 states below the Mason Dixon line are in fact where the vast majority of the total overall PHA membership resides. The state GLs that have recognised PHA have the minority of the PHA membership by comparison.

[Trinityman]

There's a tendency to go round in circles with this topic - it's inevitable because there is no obvious immediate solution. Or perhaps because the best solution might be simply to wait.

As I said before (I think), it's too simplistic to describe Southern freemasonry as racist. The vast majority of whites choose to join state grand lodges and the vast majority of blacks choose to join Prince Hall. There is nothing written in the rules of either organisation that excludes on the basis of race. However as each lodge is a private club that requires near-unanimity to elect new members the status quo is hard to change. I know of lodges in England that "discriminate" by class, by masonic rank and even by hobby!

It only looks racist to the outsider. Just remember the wild opinions that some non-masons have of freemasonry based on a judgment made with incomplete knowledge. Things are always a lot different when you're on the inside looking out.

[3DistinctKnocks]

I know that I'm new to this forum (this being only my 4th post), but as a Mason under the Grand Lodge of Mississippi, I'd like to make a point or two. Now, I do not speak for my Grand Lodge nor even for my home Lodge when I write this. Has anyone considered the possibility that PHA and "Mainstream" GL's don't really want to recognize each other in the Southern US? In my experience (a Mason since 2006), the topic of PHA recognition is very rarely brought up amongst my Brethren. I can't speak for how much the topic is discussed in my GL, but I have been told that since the Mississippi PHA GL (M.W. Stringer GL...not sure of the name) is the youngest of the two, then they would have to request recognition first. I was also told that this has not been done and that it is very possible that the PHA GL will not seek recognition from the GL of Mississippi. So, if that is the case, then we have a stalemate where neither GL wants to recognize the other. Does this have anything at all to do with racism? Maybe...I doubt it...who knows! There is not a huge outcry for recognition here in Mississippi. You don't see PHA members bashing MS members because we don't recognize each other. No one seems to care that there is no recognition between us...other than folks outside of the state. Sure, my GL tells me that I can't recognize that PHA member as a Brother. But my GL can not tell me that I can't treat him as a man. A case in point: A year or two ago, my vehicle broke down and I was stranded on the side of a highway. And no...I didn't have a cell phone with me (I hate those things!!). I have a s&c decal on my vehicle. After a little while, this little red sports car pulls up...I can hear the bass of a rap song emanating from the car. This black dude turns down the tunes, sticks his head out of the car and says, "Hey Bro., need some help?" I say "yup, sure do.". He says, "Hop on in.", so I do. I tell him that the ole truck broke down and if I can just get to my dad's house in town..that'd be cool. I gave him directions and we discover that his father lives just a few doors down from mine and that he was headed there in the first place! On the way, he tells me that he noticed my "light" (emblem), as he called it, and asked if I was a member of the GL of Mississippi. I told him that I was and he said that he was a member of the PHA GL here in Mississippi. Then he said, "I know we can't talk Masonicly and that you can't call me 'Brother', but that don't mean that we can't treat each other like we was cousins!". All I could say was, "Man, you're all-right". We stopped off at a store on the way, I bought him a cold drink and we chatted about all sorts of things on the way to my dad's. So in the end, right now, the two Mississippi GL's don't recognize each other and that might not ever change. But, "that don't mean we can't treat each other like we was cousins"!!

[pfunk123158]

this is an very nice post, I have to admit that i have had some very interesting conversations with masons from the GL of S.C. and Ga. who don't recognize PHA.

Harmon

I know that I'm new to this forum (this being only my 4th post), but as a Mason under the Grand Lodge of Mississippi, I'd like to make a point or two. Now, I do not speak for my Grand Lodge nor even for my home Lodge when I write this. Has anyone considered the possibility that PHA and "Mainstream" GL's don't really want to recognize each other in the Southern US? In my experience (a Mason since 2006), the topic of PHA recognition is very rarely brought up amongst my Brethren. I can't speak for how much the topic is discussed in my GL, but I have been told that since the Mississippi PHA GL (M.W. Stringer GL...not sure of the name) is the youngest of the two, then they would have to request recognition first. I was also told that this has not been done and that it is very possible that the PHA GL will not seek recognition from the GL of Mississippi. So, if that is the case, then we have a stalemate where neither GL wants to recognize the other. Does this have anything at all to do with racism? Maybe...I doubt it...who knows! There is not a huge outcry for recognition here in Mississippi. You don't see PHA members bashing MS members because we don't recognize each other. No one seems to care that there is no recognition between us...other than folks outside of the state. Sure, my GL tells me that I can't recognize that PHA member as a Brother. But my GL can not tell me that I can't treat him as a man. A case in point: A year or two ago, my vehicle broke down and I was stranded on the side of a highway. And no...I didn't have a cell phone with me (I hate those things!!). I have a s&c decal on my vehicle. After a little while, this little red sports car pulls up...I can hear the bass of a rap song emanating from the car. This black dude turns down the tunes, sticks his head out of the car and says, "Hey Bro., need some help?" I say "yup, sure do.". He says, "Hop on in.", so I do. I tell him that the ole truck broke down and if I can just get to my dad's house in town..that'd be cool. I gave him directions and we discover that his father lives just a few doors down from mine and that he was headed there in the first place! On the way, he tells me that he noticed my "light" (emblem), as he called it, and asked if I was a member of the GL of Mississippi. I told him that I was and he said that he was a member of the PHA GL here in Mississippi. Then he said, "I know we can't talk Masonicly and that you can't call me 'Brother', but that don't mean that we can't treat each other like we was cousins!". All I could say was, "Man, you're all-right". We stopped off at a store on the way, I bought him a cold drink and we chatted about all sorts of things on the way to my dad's. So in the end, right now, the two Mississippi GL's don't recognize each other and that might not ever change. But, "that don't mean we can't treat each other like we was cousins"!!

[admin]

A wise old Mason once said to me.

The Catholic Church works in Centuries.

UGLE is much faster it works in decades.

I trust in Freemasonry and it will create a level playing field in the end.

[Trouillogan]

There's glacial time, archeological time, evolutionary time, geological time - and Masonic time!

[Lobbus]

I agree with Bro.Harmon that Bro.Knocks has constructed a thoughtful and informative posting.

If the respective Mississippi Grand Lodges do not wish to talk to each other and treat each other as "brothers", that is of course their privilege, although perhaps they do not realise how both orders are diminished spiritually by this attitude. I cannot accept the idea, however, that there is any moral justification in one grand lodge having the power to interfere with the application of another perfectly regular grand lodge to another for recognition, in this case to the UGLE.

Bro Harmon, have any of the the mainstream grand lodges in the USA made or received recognition approaches from the "Southern" Prince Hall organisations?

I, being both a Prince Hall Mason (Bahamas) and also now attached to UGLE, and thus having a foot in both camps,as it were, consider myself incredibly lucky to be in this position, as I can see the beauty of both masonic spectra.

Bro. Trouillogan, "High" time comes to mind! What a shame it has to be thus. Thank you for your hospitality on Sunday, I enjoyed a most pleasant afternoon of excellent masonic discourse in your company on your country estate.

Perhaps further informal weekend meets of like-minded brethren (in this case within driving distance of the south of England) could be organised, I am sure we could learn much from each other, with "profit and pleasure" being the result.

[pfunk123158]

to my knowledge no on both accounts.

Harmon

I agree with Bro.Harmon that Bro.Knocks has constructed a thoughtful and informative posting.

If the respective Mississippi Grand Lodges do not wish to talk to each other and treat each other as "brothers", that is of course their privilege, although perhaps they do not realise how both orders are diminished spiritually by this attitude. I cannot accept the idea, however, that there is any moral justification in one grand lodge having the power to interfere with the application of another perfectly regular grand lodge to another for recognition, in this case to the UGLE.

Bro Harmon, have any of the the mainstream grand lodges in the USA made or received recognition approaches from the "Southern" Prince Hall organisations?

I, being both a Prince Hall Mason (Bahamas) and also now attached to UGLE, and thus having a foot in both camps,as it were, consider myself incredibly lucky to be in this position, as I can see the beauty of both masonic spectra.

Bro. Trouillogan, "High" time comes to mind! What a shame it has to be thus. Thank you for your hospitality on Sunday, I enjoyed a most pleasant afternoon of excellent masonic discourse in your company on your country estate.

Perhaps further informal weekend meets of like-minded brethren (in this case within driving distance of the south of England) could be organised, I am sure we could learn much from each other, with "profit and pleasure" being the result.

[Trouillogan]

Who knows, Lobbus, if this weather continues we might be able to put together a forum bbq in some corner of my acres!